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	<title>Comments on: PDF Talk: &#8220;The Not-So-Hidden Politics of Class Online&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: Maitri</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19294</link>
		<dc:creator>Maitri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jul 2009 14:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19294</guid>
		<description>I, an Indian-American woman, ditched the &quot;ad-infested, complicated mess&quot; known as MySpace specifically for that reason, but kept the FB one.  FB also has better privacy settings so that I can keep certain handpicked people in and creeps/pervs/younameit (plenty on MySpace) out.


With that disclosure out of the way, why do you see whites and non-whites self-segregating online based on the offerings of their online hangouts as a bad thing?  MySpace offers colorful wallpaper &amp; ways to dress up your blog and, most importantly, the ability to play music; color, pizazz, music and their culture are more important to African-American and Latino populations than most white people (trust me, I moved from New Orleans to middle Ohio - not much color, joie de vivre or music here).  Do you have a problem with predominantly black or Hispanic nightclubs vs. white ones?   With that in mind, perhaps a majority of non-whites just like to hang out in their own scene, rather than white people rejecting them for &quot;whiter, more preppy&quot; venues as you think.  Many Americans awakened to social media with MySpace - groups &amp; cliques formed their bonds there.  Some got into their late 20s and early 30s and ditched MySpace for Facebook; others stayed on due to allegiance and a much better time.  Yes, given the choice between standing next to a white person or a black person, most white people will probably choose a white person, but I don&#039;t think that white people leave MySpace because of &quot;ghetto-fication&quot; or white fright/flight.


This nation does suffer a huge digital divide, I don&#039;t doubt that for one second.  The biggest problem we New Orleans bloggers faced was getting the poor, who suffered Katrina and The Flood the worst, to blog about their experiences.  Forget the obvious fact that many poor don&#039;t have computers or smartphones, you had to offer them motivation to get into social media: what&#039;s in it for them?  Their kids &amp; grandkids got onlline, though - onto MySpace to find music and to interact virtually with their real-life friends, especially those displaced by the storm.  A circle like that is hard to break.  What&#039;s in it for them to move wholesale to Facebook?


I&#039;d also be interested to see the MySpace vs. Facebook breakdown by age.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I, an Indian-American woman, ditched the &#8220;ad-infested, complicated mess&#8221; known as MySpace specifically for that reason, but kept the FB one.  FB also has better privacy settings so that I can keep certain handpicked people in and creeps/pervs/younameit (plenty on MySpace) out.</p>
<p>With that disclosure out of the way, why do you see whites and non-whites self-segregating online based on the offerings of their online hangouts as a bad thing?  MySpace offers colorful wallpaper &#038; ways to dress up your blog and, most importantly, the ability to play music; color, pizazz, music and their culture are more important to African-American and Latino populations than most white people (trust me, I moved from New Orleans to middle Ohio &#8211; not much color, joie de vivre or music here).  Do you have a problem with predominantly black or Hispanic nightclubs vs. white ones?   With that in mind, perhaps a majority of non-whites just like to hang out in their own scene, rather than white people rejecting them for &#8220;whiter, more preppy&#8221; venues as you think.  Many Americans awakened to social media with MySpace &#8211; groups &#038; cliques formed their bonds there.  Some got into their late 20s and early 30s and ditched MySpace for Facebook; others stayed on due to allegiance and a much better time.  Yes, given the choice between standing next to a white person or a black person, most white people will probably choose a white person, but I don&#8217;t think that white people leave MySpace because of &#8220;ghetto-fication&#8221; or white fright/flight.</p>
<p>This nation does suffer a huge digital divide, I don&#8217;t doubt that for one second.  The biggest problem we New Orleans bloggers faced was getting the poor, who suffered Katrina and The Flood the worst, to blog about their experiences.  Forget the obvious fact that many poor don&#8217;t have computers or smartphones, you had to offer them motivation to get into social media: what&#8217;s in it for them?  Their kids &#038; grandkids got onlline, though &#8211; onto MySpace to find music and to interact virtually with their real-life friends, especially those displaced by the storm.  A circle like that is hard to break.  What&#8217;s in it for them to move wholesale to Facebook?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also be interested to see the MySpace vs. Facebook breakdown by age.</p>
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		<title>By: Judy Shapiro</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19293</link>
		<dc:creator>Judy Shapiro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:16:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19293</guid>
		<description>I do see the argument but I contend there is another dynamic emerging in the social networking landscape that is more dominant than socio-economics and that dynamic is trust. This I believe is becoming far valuable in determining how social networks (and even the next gen web for that matter) will evolve.


I do not discount the social fragmentation you describe, but I contend, trust in the case of Facebook and a lack of trust in the case of Myspace was the key factor. This AdAge article explains this point based on  casual conversation I had one day with a 16 year old. &lt;a href=&quot;http://adage.com/digitalnext/post?article_id=137602&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://adage.com/digitalnext/post?article_id=137602&lt;/a&gt;


Judy Shapiro
Sr. VP, Paltalk


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do see the argument but I contend there is another dynamic emerging in the social networking landscape that is more dominant than socio-economics and that dynamic is trust. This I believe is becoming far valuable in determining how social networks (and even the next gen web for that matter) will evolve.</p>
<p>I do not discount the social fragmentation you describe, but I contend, trust in the case of Facebook and a lack of trust in the case of Myspace was the key factor. This AdAge article explains this point based on  casual conversation I had one day with a 16 year old. <a href="http://adage.com/digitalnext/post?article_id=137602" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/adage.com/digitalnext/post?article_id=137602&amp;referer=');">http://adage.com/digitalnext/post?article_id=137602</a></p>
<p>Judy Shapiro<br />
Sr. VP, Paltalk</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19292</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 19:38:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19292</guid>
		<description>Writeup in the NYTimes: &lt;a href=&quot;http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/does-social-networking-breed-social-division/index.html?hp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Does Social Networking Breed Social Division&lt;/a&gt; (currently linked from the NYTimes homepage). Congrats!
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Writeup in the NYTimes: <a href="http://gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/does-social-networking-breed-social-division/index.html?hp" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/gadgetwise.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/09/does-social-networking-breed-social-division/index.html?hp&amp;referer=');">Does Social Networking Breed Social Division</a> (currently linked from the NYTimes homepage). Congrats!</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Jordan</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19291</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 05:10:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19291</guid>
		<description>It strikes me (as a noobe in Britain) that the chattering classes are terrified of social media because it is reforming the lines of communication.


I agree that the political economy will influence digital use but the &#039;chatter&#039; is more that people who are currently dominant are not using it.  Endless smirks about Twitter by Wimbledon commentators, for example.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It strikes me (as a noobe in Britain) that the chattering classes are terrified of social media because it is reforming the lines of communication.</p>
<p>I agree that the political economy will influence digital use but the &#8216;chatter&#8217; is more that people who are currently dominant are not using it.  Endless smirks about Twitter by Wimbledon commentators, for example.</p>
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		<title>By: Arthur Lange</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19290</link>
		<dc:creator>Arthur Lange</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 17:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19290</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a really interesting point that you make.  I think online social networking is a dangerous hotbed of risk.  Nowadays there&#039;s no telling who is looking at your &lt;a href=&quot;http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2009/06/12/be-careful-what-you-write-social-media-marketing/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;profile&lt;/a&gt;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a really interesting point that you make.  I think online social networking is a dangerous hotbed of risk.  Nowadays there&#8217;s no telling who is looking at your <a href="http://lawblog.legalmatch.com/2009/06/12/be-careful-what-you-write-social-media-marketing/" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/lawblog.legalmatch.com/2009/06/12/be-careful-what-you-write-social-media-marketing/?referer=');">profile</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: marc taro holmes</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19289</link>
		<dc:creator>marc taro holmes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 16:58:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19289</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m seeing an interesting side of this topic - I&#039;ve been in games and entertainment for a 15 years or so - we&#039;ve been seeing casual gaming going after FB integration. Grabbing your friends from FB and adding them to your in-game cohort - making the game more personal, more &#039;sticky&#039; from day one. Now we&#039;re seeing a crossover with iphone as well. If/when FB becomes one of the major handheld game platforms - which are growing  competition with traditional consoles (Xbox/Playstation) they&#039;re going have more clout in the social networkign arms race.  MS by contrast is not getting the same attention - perhaps the FB tech is just easier to work with - or perhaps dev&#039;s know instinctively MS users are less likely to have disposable income to harvest.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m seeing an interesting side of this topic &#8211; I&#8217;ve been in games and entertainment for a 15 years or so &#8211; we&#8217;ve been seeing casual gaming going after FB integration. Grabbing your friends from FB and adding them to your in-game cohort &#8211; making the game more personal, more &#8216;sticky&#8217; from day one. Now we&#8217;re seeing a crossover with iphone as well. If/when FB becomes one of the major handheld game platforms &#8211; which are growing  competition with traditional consoles (Xbox/Playstation) they&#8217;re going have more clout in the social networkign arms race.  MS by contrast is not getting the same attention &#8211; perhaps the FB tech is just easier to work with &#8211; or perhaps dev&#8217;s know instinctively MS users are less likely to have disposable income to harvest.</p>
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		<title>By: alligator_legs</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19288</link>
		<dc:creator>alligator_legs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jul 2009 07:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19288</guid>
		<description>Really fascinating stuff.  Will definitely share the info. :)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really fascinating stuff.  Will definitely share the info. <img src='http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Soryahh</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19287</link>
		<dc:creator>Soryahh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 10:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19287</guid>
		<description>Am really interested in this talk and the work you have been doing. I wonder if it is very US centered as I don&#039;t see the same divisions in my students in the UK. I like your calmness and sense logic about social networking which is often absent when words such as teenagers and Facebook are discussed.
Thanks
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am really interested in this talk and the work you have been doing. I wonder if it is very US centered as I don&#8217;t see the same divisions in my students in the UK. I like your calmness and sense logic about social networking which is often absent when words such as teenagers and Facebook are discussed.<br />
Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19286</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19286</guid>
		<description>Great talk. However, as a young person who switched from MySpace to Facebook (upon transitioning from suburban HS to a liberal arts college) I think you avoid a major narrative.


Around 2006, MySpace began to become flooded with spam messages, virus messages etc.


No one -- especially those early users who were used to spam-free social networking, and likely privileged/tech-savvy -- wanted to be a part of that. Facebook was spam and virus-free. That is definitely a part of the story.


Beyond that, I think there&#039;s some great evidence and analysis here of how class colors our social networking experience.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great talk. However, as a young person who switched from MySpace to Facebook (upon transitioning from suburban HS to a liberal arts college) I think you avoid a major narrative.</p>
<p>Around 2006, MySpace began to become flooded with spam messages, virus messages etc.</p>
<p>No one &#8212; especially those early users who were used to spam-free social networking, and likely privileged/tech-savvy &#8212; wanted to be a part of that. Facebook was spam and virus-free. That is definitely a part of the story.</p>
<p>Beyond that, I think there&#8217;s some great evidence and analysis here of how class colors our social networking experience.</p>
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		<title>By: daedalus2u</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html/comment-page-1#comment-19285</link>
		<dc:creator>daedalus2u</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2009/06/30/pdf_talk_the_no.html#comment-19285</guid>
		<description>dana,


You might want to look at this paper.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/325/5936/48&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/325/5936/48&lt;/a&gt;


I think it is an explanation for the Nietzsche quote


&quot;If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.&quot;


Even if you try to avoid something having an impact on you, just by trying to avoid it having an impact on you it will.


People associate with others like themselves because of homophily.  If they associate with people not like themselves, they change, they become like the people they are associating with.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dana,</p>
<p>You might want to look at this paper.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/325/5936/48" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/325/5936/48?referer=');">http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/325/5936/48</a></p>
<p>I think it is an explanation for the Nietzsche quote</p>
<p>&#8220;If you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.&#8221;</p>
<p>Even if you try to avoid something having an impact on you, just by trying to avoid it having an impact on you it will.</p>
<p>People associate with others like themselves because of homophily.  If they associate with people not like themselves, they change, they become like the people they are associating with.</p>
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