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	<title>Comments on: United, my trip from hell, and karmic retribution</title>
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		<title>By: rico</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-20978</link>
		<dc:creator>rico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-20978</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve enjoyed your blog for a few years now but have been mostly following tweets lately.  Because of the subtitle of this blog, I wanted to suggest a reason that the airlines will never be allowed to fail.

The history of the airlines is unique in our society.  There are ties from the beginning to the Federal government and, more importantly defense contractors.  Who manufactures airplanes?  What else do those companies manufacture?   

With a major facility (or two or three) in every US state, all our politicians have a vested interest in the continuance of the airline industry, especially in &quot;this economy.&quot;   The potential job hit rivals the automotive industry, not to mention the Money.  Unfortunately, -and this is only my opinion, the popular logic is that it is essential to keep the largest airlines in business to maintain the demand for planes and other equipment.  

It&#039;s doubtful that the airline industry will every be truly subject to the laws of the free-market because there is so much money at stake, and incredibly powerful lobbies at work.  

Since 9/11 we&#039;ve watched the quality of a flight experience steadily decline, but as consumers it feels like there is little we can do but suck it up.  It&#039;s infuriating and demeaning and it seems to fly in the face of even the most basic customer-service principals.  At the same time, the employees (who, except for the pilots have never been paid incredibly well to begin with) have been asked again and again to take pay cuts and reduce benefits to &quot;save&quot; their jobs.  While this in no way justifies your or anyone else&#039;s poor treatment, one would argue that they must be a pretty disgruntled bunch by now.  

It seems we have to address a major paradigm shift in our society with regards to business and travel.  With so much of what you write and speak about in terms of technology and social media, one wonders how much physical travel is even necessary any more?   Face-time is an important element of humanity as well as business practice, but in terms of what even small companies spend on air travel per year one wonders if even a 10% reduction across half US companies would send a message to the airlines, &quot;We&#039;re not gonna take it anymore.&quot;   

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve enjoyed your blog for a few years now but have been mostly following tweets lately.  Because of the subtitle of this blog, I wanted to suggest a reason that the airlines will never be allowed to fail.</p>
<p>The history of the airlines is unique in our society.  There are ties from the beginning to the Federal government and, more importantly defense contractors.  Who manufactures airplanes?  What else do those companies manufacture?   </p>
<p>With a major facility (or two or three) in every US state, all our politicians have a vested interest in the continuance of the airline industry, especially in &#8220;this economy.&#8221;   The potential job hit rivals the automotive industry, not to mention the Money.  Unfortunately, -and this is only my opinion, the popular logic is that it is essential to keep the largest airlines in business to maintain the demand for planes and other equipment.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s doubtful that the airline industry will every be truly subject to the laws of the free-market because there is so much money at stake, and incredibly powerful lobbies at work.  </p>
<p>Since 9/11 we&#8217;ve watched the quality of a flight experience steadily decline, but as consumers it feels like there is little we can do but suck it up.  It&#8217;s infuriating and demeaning and it seems to fly in the face of even the most basic customer-service principals.  At the same time, the employees (who, except for the pilots have never been paid incredibly well to begin with) have been asked again and again to take pay cuts and reduce benefits to &#8220;save&#8221; their jobs.  While this in no way justifies your or anyone else&#8217;s poor treatment, one would argue that they must be a pretty disgruntled bunch by now.  </p>
<p>It seems we have to address a major paradigm shift in our society with regards to business and travel.  With so much of what you write and speak about in terms of technology and social media, one wonders how much physical travel is even necessary any more?   Face-time is an important element of humanity as well as business practice, but in terms of what even small companies spend on air travel per year one wonders if even a 10% reduction across half US companies would send a message to the airlines, &#8220;We&#8217;re not gonna take it anymore.&#8221;   </p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: CHris</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-20846</link>
		<dc:creator>CHris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 14:21:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-20846</guid>
		<description>Maybe the lesson to be learned from this is not &quot;don&#039;t fly United anywhere&quot; but rather &quot;don&#039;t fly anything but the state-approved airline into a command economy.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the lesson to be learned from this is not &#8220;don&#8217;t fly United anywhere&#8221; but rather &#8220;don&#8217;t fly anything but the state-approved airline into a command economy.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Noor</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-18378</link>
		<dc:creator>Noor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2008 15:04:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-18378</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been reading your blog for years and never felt compelled to comment, except for my disdain for United!  I had a similar bad experience a few years back - except that my 90 minute flight was delayed over six hours -


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.desertofmydreams.com/?p=4397&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.desertofmydreams.com/?p=4397&lt;/a&gt;


My experience wasn&#039;t as horrific as yours but their handling of the situation is almost identical.  Most airlines seem to have varying degrees of suckage but United is in its own category of suckage.  I&#039;ve never seen a business treat its customers the way they do.  I sent United the link to my blog post, curious to see their response.  I too got a $150 certificate (which I actually never used and it expired).  I get teh feeling that they don&#039;t even read the complaints and just hand out those certificates blindly.  After my experience, I now do everything in my power to avoid them.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been reading your blog for years and never felt compelled to comment, except for my disdain for United!  I had a similar bad experience a few years back &#8211; except that my 90 minute flight was delayed over six hours -</p>
<p><a href="http://www.desertofmydreams.com/?p=4397" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.desertofmydreams.com/?p=4397&amp;referer=');">http://www.desertofmydreams.com/?p=4397</a></p>
<p>My experience wasn&#8217;t as horrific as yours but their handling of the situation is almost identical.  Most airlines seem to have varying degrees of suckage but United is in its own category of suckage.  I&#8217;ve never seen a business treat its customers the way they do.  I sent United the link to my blog post, curious to see their response.  I too got a $150 certificate (which I actually never used and it expired).  I get teh feeling that they don&#8217;t even read the complaints and just hand out those certificates blindly.  After my experience, I now do everything in my power to avoid them.</p>
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		<title>By: Necoli</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-18377</link>
		<dc:creator>Necoli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:25:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-18377</guid>
		<description>danah- you were TOO kind.  I would have booked myself another flight and filed a chargeback with my CC for the $10k.  Seriously, after all that you got a $150 coupon????  I would contact a different person and demand a refund.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>danah- you were TOO kind.  I would have booked myself another flight and filed a chargeback with my CC for the $10k.  Seriously, after all that you got a $150 coupon????  I would contact a different person and demand a refund.</p>
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		<title>By: Steph</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-18376</link>
		<dc:creator>Steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 14:14:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-18376</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t comment on blog posts much, but you&#039;ve inspired, nay, compelled me to.  I am so sorry to hear about your experience (especially at $10k).


I NEVER fly United.  I pay MORE to fly on other airlines because it&#039;s worth it to avoid United (and I do not make much money).


Years ago, I *tried* to fly United four times for business.  They were my employer&#039;s &quot;preferred airline&quot; (no longer).  Only one of the four planes ever managed to leave the airport.  The other flights were canceled and, after 12-14 hours, I managed to leave the airport via other airlines.  For the flight that did manage to leave, it only took off after three hours of sitting on the runway.  This three hour delay meant that I missed a connecting flight to Europe in Atlanta, where I had a meeting the following European business day.  The last flight to *anywhere* in Europe was an Air France flight to Paris.  I took that flight and hopped another to London, landing in Europe after a full 24+ hours of constant travel with a few hours to spare before my presentation.


Did United even once apologize?  Acknowledge a problem? Offer a voucher for so much as a free coffee?  Of course not.  Yet, de Gaulle airport (of all places) felt sorry for us and offered free food and beer (praise be) vouchers for the entire time we had to spend at the airport.


I have other stories (like the time it took me 14 hours to go from San Francisco to Boston, when it would have been faster to just fly to Singapore), but this one is representative.  What I don&#039;t understand is why this airline simply will not be allowed to fail.  Why does anyone attempt to salvage this mess?  For once, can we let the market work and let airlines (especially United) fail?  Please?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t comment on blog posts much, but you&#8217;ve inspired, nay, compelled me to.  I am so sorry to hear about your experience (especially at $10k).</p>
<p>I NEVER fly United.  I pay MORE to fly on other airlines because it&#8217;s worth it to avoid United (and I do not make much money).</p>
<p>Years ago, I *tried* to fly United four times for business.  They were my employer&#8217;s &#8220;preferred airline&#8221; (no longer).  Only one of the four planes ever managed to leave the airport.  The other flights were canceled and, after 12-14 hours, I managed to leave the airport via other airlines.  For the flight that did manage to leave, it only took off after three hours of sitting on the runway.  This three hour delay meant that I missed a connecting flight to Europe in Atlanta, where I had a meeting the following European business day.  The last flight to *anywhere* in Europe was an Air France flight to Paris.  I took that flight and hopped another to London, landing in Europe after a full 24+ hours of constant travel with a few hours to spare before my presentation.</p>
<p>Did United even once apologize?  Acknowledge a problem? Offer a voucher for so much as a free coffee?  Of course not.  Yet, de Gaulle airport (of all places) felt sorry for us and offered free food and beer (praise be) vouchers for the entire time we had to spend at the airport.</p>
<p>I have other stories (like the time it took me 14 hours to go from San Francisco to Boston, when it would have been faster to just fly to Singapore), but this one is representative.  What I don&#8217;t understand is why this airline simply will not be allowed to fail.  Why does anyone attempt to salvage this mess?  For once, can we let the market work and let airlines (especially United) fail?  Please?</p>
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		<title>By: Erich</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-18375</link>
		<dc:creator>Erich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 13:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-18375</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://consumerist.com/consumer/consumerist-kit/get-united-airlines-executive-customer-service-226948.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Consumerist&lt;/a&gt; has contact info for UA&#039;s Vice President and Chief Customer Officer.  Good luck.


Graham Atkinson
Fax: 1-847-700-3451
Email: graham.atkinson@united.com
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://consumerist.com/consumer/consumerist-kit/get-united-airlines-executive-customer-service-226948.php" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/consumerist.com/consumer/consumerist-kit/get-united-airlines-executive-customer-service-226948.php?referer=');">The Consumerist</a> has contact info for UA&#8217;s Vice President and Chief Customer Officer.  Good luck.</p>
<p>Graham Atkinson<br />
Fax: 1-847-700-3451<br />
Email: <a href="mailto:graham.atkinson@united.com">graham.atkinson@united.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Maria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-18374</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:48:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-18374</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re not the only one! I have a free ticket on United and would rather let it expire than take it. Horrid airline, and rated the worst by Conde Nast:


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.gadling.com/2008/06/12/em-conde-nast-portfolio-em-weighs-in-on-just-how-much-united/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.gadling.com/2008/06/12/em-conde-nast-portfolio-em-weighs-in-on-just-how-much-united/&lt;/a&gt;


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re not the only one! I have a free ticket on United and would rather let it expire than take it. Horrid airline, and rated the worst by Conde Nast:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.gadling.com/2008/06/12/em-conde-nast-portfolio-em-weighs-in-on-just-how-much-united/" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.gadling.com/2008/06/12/em-conde-nast-portfolio-em-weighs-in-on-just-how-much-united/?referer=');">http://www.gadling.com/2008/06/12/em-conde-nast-portfolio-em-weighs-in-on-just-how-much-united/</a></p>
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		<title>By: jeremy hunsinger</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html/comment-page-1#comment-18373</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy hunsinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:33:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2008/09/10/united_my_trip.html#comment-18373</guid>
		<description>I hate to add to the crush, but I&#039;ve found that far to often what seemed to be corporate loyalty ended up being a completely unintended pattern of fortuitous interaction with people.   In short, I don&#039;t think there is much loyalty to people except on an individual basis and beyond that, i think the rest is just our own misapprehensions of our own good luck....  My wife just had a similar experience, shorter flight, 10 hours delayed, and they turned around 1/2 way here...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hate to add to the crush, but I&#8217;ve found that far to often what seemed to be corporate loyalty ended up being a completely unintended pattern of fortuitous interaction with people.   In short, I don&#8217;t think there is much loyalty to people except on an individual basis and beyond that, i think the rest is just our own misapprehensions of our own good luck&#8230;.  My wife just had a similar experience, shorter flight, 10 hours delayed, and they turned around 1/2 way here&#8230;</p>
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