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	<title>Comments on: Facebook&#8217;s &#8220;opt-out&#8221; precedent</title>
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	<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html</link>
	<description>making connections where none previously existed</description>
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		<title>By: Google Buzz as Experience Pattern &#171; Fred Stutzman</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-20157</link>
		<dc:creator>Google Buzz as Experience Pattern &#171; Fred Stutzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 02:26:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-20157</guid>
		<description>[...] I&#8217;ve seen this happen to know that these &#8220;mistakes&#8221; aren&#8217;t accidental.  As danah boyd has written previously, &#8220;In other words, this is “slippery slope” software development. Given what I’ve [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I&#8217;ve seen this happen to know that these &#8220;mistakes&#8221; aren&#8217;t accidental.  As danah boyd has written previously, &#8220;In other words, this is “slippery slope” software development. Given what I’ve [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17250</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:12:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17250</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great info!  Everyone that I know thinks that I am a nut because I am a privacy freak. This is a great example of how easily we can all be manipulated.  I 100% agree with you in regards to the &quot;Opt-In&quot; theory.  It is shocking to me what is legal in this country and what is not..the &quot;opt-out&quot; model, in my opinion, should be completely illegal.  I am emailing everyone I know the link to your site as I think that most people have no idea that this is going on. Thanks again for the info!
-Ryan
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great info!  Everyone that I know thinks that I am a nut because I am a privacy freak. This is a great example of how easily we can all be manipulated.  I 100% agree with you in regards to the &#8220;Opt-In&#8221; theory.  It is shocking to me what is legal in this country and what is not..the &#8220;opt-out&#8221; model, in my opinion, should be completely illegal.  I am emailing everyone I know the link to your site as I think that most people have no idea that this is going on. Thanks again for the info!<br />
-Ryan</p>
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		<title>By: Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17249</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:05:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17249</guid>
		<description>&quot;Still, I think that the default should be &quot;opt-in&quot; and &quot;opt-out&quot; should only be used in situations that would protect users (i.e., a feature that would limit users&#039; visibility).&quot;


Sure, every geek thinks that, including me. How then are they supposed to make money?  &#039;Cause if they don&#039;t, they won&#039;t survive, and another company who&#039;s willing to do the same darn thing will arise.


Dan


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Still, I think that the default should be &#8220;opt-in&#8221; and &#8220;opt-out&#8221; should only be used in situations that would protect users (i.e., a feature that would limit users&#8217; visibility).&#8221;</p>
<p>Sure, every geek thinks that, including me. How then are they supposed to make money?  &#8216;Cause if they don&#8217;t, they won&#8217;t survive, and another company who&#8217;s willing to do the same darn thing will arise.</p>
<p>Dan</p>
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		<title>By: Cristóbal Palmer</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17248</link>
		<dc:creator>Cristóbal Palmer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:00:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17248</guid>
		<description>Thanks so much for your analysis. I&#039;m glad I purged my profile and left facebook.


As an aside, your web server is serving up this page as ISO-8859-1 instead of UTF-8, which is making the word naiveté render wrong. Might want to contact netspace.org.


Cheers,
CMP
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for your analysis. I&#8217;m glad I purged my profile and left facebook.</p>
<p>As an aside, your web server is serving up this page as ISO-8859-1 instead of UTF-8, which is making the word naiveté render wrong. Might want to contact netspace.org.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
CMP</p>
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		<title>By: Deb</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17247</link>
		<dc:creator>Deb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:42:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17247</guid>
		<description>I find your thoughts here very interesting, and a bit of a wake-up. I joined facebook at the invite of a good friend, and have been somewhat perplexed by it ever since. And I pretty much don&#039;t use it, other than the periodic logging in upon receiving a friend request. This post got me thinking, though. There are some things I still don&#039;t know (are they gathering info whether or not I&#039;m logged in?), but I decided to be a bit less apathetic about the information I&#039;m allowing to be gathered.


I found this post, which might be useful to the people out there who want to use facebook but block beacon. (and the privacy settings, or opting-out of some of it, doesn&#039;t mean the information isn&#039;t being collected, as the following post explains quite clearly!) &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ideashower.com/blog/block-facebook-beacon/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.ideashower.com/blog/block-facebook-beacon/&lt;/a&gt;


I followed their steps, and it was very easy to do. I suppose I&#039;m one of the paranoid ones who is a lot more worried about the info that&#039;s being collected while I&#039;m unaware than about the information that I consciously make available via profiles and posted personal information.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find your thoughts here very interesting, and a bit of a wake-up. I joined facebook at the invite of a good friend, and have been somewhat perplexed by it ever since. And I pretty much don&#8217;t use it, other than the periodic logging in upon receiving a friend request. This post got me thinking, though. There are some things I still don&#8217;t know (are they gathering info whether or not I&#8217;m logged in?), but I decided to be a bit less apathetic about the information I&#8217;m allowing to be gathered.</p>
<p>I found this post, which might be useful to the people out there who want to use facebook but block beacon. (and the privacy settings, or opting-out of some of it, doesn&#8217;t mean the information isn&#8217;t being collected, as the following post explains quite clearly!) <a href="http://www.ideashower.com/blog/block-facebook-beacon/" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.ideashower.com/blog/block-facebook-beacon/?referer=');">http://www.ideashower.com/blog/block-facebook-beacon/</a></p>
<p>I followed their steps, and it was very easy to do. I suppose I&#8217;m one of the paranoid ones who is a lot more worried about the info that&#8217;s being collected while I&#8217;m unaware than about the information that I consciously make available via profiles and posted personal information.</p>
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		<title>By: Snyggast</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17246</link>
		<dc:creator>Snyggast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 20:24:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17246</guid>
		<description>Privacy in SN sites is maybe understood that if strangers have no way of messaging you, even if they can see your profile photo (not your entire profile page), then that&#039;s private enough. I learned to think that way from using Friendster or Myspace. To me, that&#039;s private enough.


If default settings of SN sites does not reveal anything including profile photos and searh results, then how can one get invited and connect with people they know? Not very social or networky there.


I won&#039;t be suprised, howevr, if online privacy advocates go overboard and target addressbook importers. After all, importers allow people to mass search and spam.


Yeah, let&#039;s just all hang out at moveon or peta.org both very engaging sites, no?


Btw, Danah, is this real fur?
&lt;a href=&quot;http://berkeley.facebook.com/friends.php?id=559436770&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://berkeley.facebook.com/friends.php?id=559436770&lt;/a&gt;




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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Privacy in SN sites is maybe understood that if strangers have no way of messaging you, even if they can see your profile photo (not your entire profile page), then that&#8217;s private enough. I learned to think that way from using Friendster or Myspace. To me, that&#8217;s private enough.</p>
<p>If default settings of SN sites does not reveal anything including profile photos and searh results, then how can one get invited and connect with people they know? Not very social or networky there.</p>
<p>I won&#8217;t be suprised, howevr, if online privacy advocates go overboard and target addressbook importers. After all, importers allow people to mass search and spam.</p>
<p>Yeah, let&#8217;s just all hang out at moveon or peta.org both very engaging sites, no?</p>
<p>Btw, Danah, is this real fur?<br />
<a href="http://berkeley.facebook.com/friends.php?id=559436770" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/berkeley.facebook.com/friends.php?id=559436770&amp;referer=');">http://berkeley.facebook.com/friends.php?id=559436770</a></p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17245</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17245</guid>
		<description>A point that I think fits with what you&#039;re saying.  A lot of good software designers (for the desktop or the web) already know that the important thing to do is have the best default settings possible.  Instead of forcing the user to figure a lot of things out, the developer makes the product work right at first (though they may still have a lot of choices).  There the incentives run together though: a good piece of software helps the developer and the user.


For Facebook and a lot of other companies, the problem is that what makes Facebook money, the advertising, is useless to the user.  We want Facebook as a place to put our information, but we don&#039;t want them to do anything with it.  But to make money, they have to use that information.  So long as that&#039;s the basic structure, there&#039;s going to be conflicts.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A point that I think fits with what you&#8217;re saying.  A lot of good software designers (for the desktop or the web) already know that the important thing to do is have the best default settings possible.  Instead of forcing the user to figure a lot of things out, the developer makes the product work right at first (though they may still have a lot of choices).  There the incentives run together though: a good piece of software helps the developer and the user.</p>
<p>For Facebook and a lot of other companies, the problem is that what makes Facebook money, the advertising, is useless to the user.  We want Facebook as a place to put our information, but we don&#8217;t want them to do anything with it.  But to make money, they have to use that information.  So long as that&#8217;s the basic structure, there&#8217;s going to be conflicts.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenny Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17244</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenny Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17244</guid>
		<description>This is a great post, danah, you summed up Facebook&#039;s privacy issues quite succinctly.


In response to Alison- like you said, &quot;trusting Facebook users&quot; are generally older folk- I think they&#039;re more open to publicizing their online profiles because they&#039;re seeking to make connections, they&#039;re gaining from the public exposure and excited by all the novel possibilities. My ethnography of social networking sites primarily re/presents the voices of college students- particularly veteran Facebook users. The site started out as being a great little niche environment, so people could exchange intimate messages and upload photos from that crazy party where everyone was on a ton of drugs and so on. Then it opened up, everyone was pissed, and that&#039;s when attitudes toward Facebook started to shift.


Most first-generation Facebookers have some degree of distrust/disgust for the site, often a great deal of it. Yet they continue to use it because it&#039;s become so firmly integrated into campus social life- it&#039;s a way to easily invite people to parties and share photos from said parties, to visually organize one&#039;s social network and keep track of alumni and old high school buddies, to find out the sexuality or relationship status of that boy you&#039;ve been admiring from afar. It&#039;s crucial. If you&#039;re not on Facebook, you&#039;re probably going to miss out on some social gossip, or not get invited to some parties.


Such important social practices generally take precedence over the egregious invasions of privacy that most are highly suspicious of. The trend is not abandoning Facebook- it&#039;s far too useful. However, the site&#039;s reputation is definitely tainted, and some Facebookers are using the site to form or join groups that promote awareness of Facebook&#039;s privacy policies and petition for change. Most, however, are simply becoming more savvy and protective of their online personas; it&#039;s become increasingly common for me to be unable to access the profiles of those I&#039;m not friends with because of that practice. There&#039;s also a huge trend to apathetically accept that nothing can be done about it, much like how a lot of young people feel about our government.


Again, these are just observations of the changing attitudes among a specific subset of Facebook users. They know what&#039;s going on (though I would say that only the Tech-savvy blog-readers have even heard about Project Beacon- but they know their information is being used for capitalist endeavors), they&#039;re disgruntled that so much of what they do on Facebook is publicly broadcast and forever archived. Regardless of how they talk about it, however, they&#039;re still using it regularly for everyday social practices. For many, it&#039;s become as habitual to check Facebook as it is to check e-mail.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post, danah, you summed up Facebook&#8217;s privacy issues quite succinctly.</p>
<p>In response to Alison- like you said, &#8220;trusting Facebook users&#8221; are generally older folk- I think they&#8217;re more open to publicizing their online profiles because they&#8217;re seeking to make connections, they&#8217;re gaining from the public exposure and excited by all the novel possibilities. My ethnography of social networking sites primarily re/presents the voices of college students- particularly veteran Facebook users. The site started out as being a great little niche environment, so people could exchange intimate messages and upload photos from that crazy party where everyone was on a ton of drugs and so on. Then it opened up, everyone was pissed, and that&#8217;s when attitudes toward Facebook started to shift.</p>
<p>Most first-generation Facebookers have some degree of distrust/disgust for the site, often a great deal of it. Yet they continue to use it because it&#8217;s become so firmly integrated into campus social life- it&#8217;s a way to easily invite people to parties and share photos from said parties, to visually organize one&#8217;s social network and keep track of alumni and old high school buddies, to find out the sexuality or relationship status of that boy you&#8217;ve been admiring from afar. It&#8217;s crucial. If you&#8217;re not on Facebook, you&#8217;re probably going to miss out on some social gossip, or not get invited to some parties.</p>
<p>Such important social practices generally take precedence over the egregious invasions of privacy that most are highly suspicious of. The trend is not abandoning Facebook- it&#8217;s far too useful. However, the site&#8217;s reputation is definitely tainted, and some Facebookers are using the site to form or join groups that promote awareness of Facebook&#8217;s privacy policies and petition for change. Most, however, are simply becoming more savvy and protective of their online personas; it&#8217;s become increasingly common for me to be unable to access the profiles of those I&#8217;m not friends with because of that practice. There&#8217;s also a huge trend to apathetically accept that nothing can be done about it, much like how a lot of young people feel about our government.</p>
<p>Again, these are just observations of the changing attitudes among a specific subset of Facebook users. They know what&#8217;s going on (though I would say that only the Tech-savvy blog-readers have even heard about Project Beacon- but they know their information is being used for capitalist endeavors), they&#8217;re disgruntled that so much of what they do on Facebook is publicly broadcast and forever archived. Regardless of how they talk about it, however, they&#8217;re still using it regularly for everyday social practices. For many, it&#8217;s become as habitual to check Facebook as it is to check e-mail.</p>
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		<title>By: The SYborg</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17243</link>
		<dc:creator>The SYborg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17243</guid>
		<description>One potential correction here: the Facebook users search setting is now distinct from the public search setting, i.e. you can be searchable by anyone on Facebook, but your public profile is not available to search engines for indexing unless you check the box making it so. I hope I&#039;m right about that, anyway. Otherwise, crap, I have to go fiddle with my privacy settings -- again.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One potential correction here: the Facebook users search setting is now distinct from the public search setting, i.e. you can be searchable by anyone on Facebook, but your public profile is not available to search engines for indexing unless you check the box making it so. I hope I&#8217;m right about that, anyway. Otherwise, crap, I have to go fiddle with my privacy settings &#8212; again.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html/comment-page-1#comment-17242</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Dec 2007 03:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/12/11/facebooks_optou.html#comment-17242</guid>
		<description>For me, this really brings home where the Internet is headed. On the one hand, &quot;Web 2.0&quot; can be seen as greater *investment* in digital social connections. On the other hand, it can also be seen more cynically as great commodification and monetarisation of what, up til now, has generally been &quot;free&quot;. I&#039;m not a Facebook user as I don&#039;t particularly like the way that my circle of acquantainces = money for someone else. In this light, though, it&#039;s easy to see *where* Facebook is heading, and why Beacon makes &quot;sense&quot;: the goal is to capture - digitally, and hence monetarily - the things we do for free anyway.


Personally, I don&#039;t find this trend exciting, liberating or convenient in the slightest. I find it insidious.




</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, this really brings home where the Internet is headed. On the one hand, &#8220;Web 2.0&#8243; can be seen as greater *investment* in digital social connections. On the other hand, it can also be seen more cynically as great commodification and monetarisation of what, up til now, has generally been &#8220;free&#8221;. I&#8217;m not a Facebook user as I don&#8217;t particularly like the way that my circle of acquantainces = money for someone else. In this light, though, it&#8217;s easy to see *where* Facebook is heading, and why Beacon makes &#8220;sense&#8221;: the goal is to capture &#8211; digitally, and hence monetarily &#8211; the things we do for free anyway.</p>
<p>Personally, I don&#8217;t find this trend exciting, liberating or convenient in the slightest. I find it insidious.</p>
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