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	<title>Comments on: why I am not going on the academic job market</title>
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	<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html</link>
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		<title>By: Aleks</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16841</link>
		<dc:creator>Aleks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Oct 2007 13:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16841</guid>
		<description>Interesting thoughts. I&#039;ve had some success as a grad student (even though I was at a smaller institution). I was never particularly keen on teaching (perhaps because of my experience trying to teach at a R2 institution ;).


Still, I loved research, and I would make this a career. I hated bureaucracy and funding and paper-writing formalities.


So I took a compromise, I went as a postdoc to a R1 institution, just to see. Being a postdoc, you have a lighter workload than being an assistant professor, and while there&#039;s not much money, there&#039;s enough to have an alright life with a bit more freedom.


But after about 6 months of looking at it up close, I&#039;ve decided I&#039;m not going to pursue it further.


Universities were great before the Internet. With Internet, there&#039;s no more point. Indeed, there are great scholars at universities, but it&#039;s correlation, not causation.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thoughts. I&#8217;ve had some success as a grad student (even though I was at a smaller institution). I was never particularly keen on teaching (perhaps because of my experience trying to teach at a R2 institution <img src='http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> .</p>
<p>Still, I loved research, and I would make this a career. I hated bureaucracy and funding and paper-writing formalities.</p>
<p>So I took a compromise, I went as a postdoc to a R1 institution, just to see. Being a postdoc, you have a lighter workload than being an assistant professor, and while there&#8217;s not much money, there&#8217;s enough to have an alright life with a bit more freedom.</p>
<p>But after about 6 months of looking at it up close, I&#8217;ve decided I&#8217;m not going to pursue it further.</p>
<p>Universities were great before the Internet. With Internet, there&#8217;s no more point. Indeed, there are great scholars at universities, but it&#8217;s correlation, not causation.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Cocciolo</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16840</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Cocciolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16840</guid>
		<description>Hi danah,


I just saw your presentation at AOIR- really great presentation.  If you reconsider, you might want to take a look at this position at Teachers College, Columbia University: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.  Only graduate students and in NYC.


Cheers,
Anthony
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi danah,</p>
<p>I just saw your presentation at AOIR- really great presentation.  If you reconsider, you might want to take a look at this position at Teachers College, Columbia University: <a href="http://www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf?referer=');"></a><a href="http://www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf?referer=');">http://www.tc.edu/dean/pdf/ccte.pdf</a>.  Only graduate students and in NYC.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Anthony</p>
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		<title>By: Alexis de Tocqueville</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16839</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexis de Tocqueville</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:27:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16839</guid>
		<description>I think you are too brilliant to settle for academia. It&#039;s much more likely that academics will spend their lives writing and talking about you. Why don&#039;t you just keep doing what you do best: thinking and respond to the world around you. Forget about &quot;tenure-track positions&quot; or &quot;publishing x number of articles in y years.&quot; That&#039;s just another version of the same rat-race that corporate America sells to our future. You&#039;re better than academia, better than industry, better than categories, really.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are too brilliant to settle for academia. It&#8217;s much more likely that academics will spend their lives writing and talking about you. Why don&#8217;t you just keep doing what you do best: thinking and respond to the world around you. Forget about &#8220;tenure-track positions&#8221; or &#8220;publishing x number of articles in y years.&#8221; That&#8217;s just another version of the same rat-race that corporate America sells to our future. You&#8217;re better than academia, better than industry, better than categories, really.</p>
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		<title>By: GJ</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16838</link>
		<dc:creator>GJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2007 09:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16838</guid>
		<description>I read your blog on a day when I&#039;m feeling particularly raw. This is my fourth year at a less prestigious institution. I chose this job because I was limited in where I could move because of family. It&#039;s a teaching institution, and yes, the students as a whole are less intellectually engaged than at research institutions. I&#039;ve been trying to balance good teaching, good research, good writing. And my blues today are because I feel as if I&#039;m failing at all areas. Take your time finding your place. Be an independent scholar if you can figure out how to pay for the midnight sushi runs.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read your blog on a day when I&#8217;m feeling particularly raw. This is my fourth year at a less prestigious institution. I chose this job because I was limited in where I could move because of family. It&#8217;s a teaching institution, and yes, the students as a whole are less intellectually engaged than at research institutions. I&#8217;ve been trying to balance good teaching, good research, good writing. And my blues today are because I feel as if I&#8217;m failing at all areas. Take your time finding your place. Be an independent scholar if you can figure out how to pay for the midnight sushi runs.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16837</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 19:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16837</guid>
		<description>Ouch. What-comes-after has been weighing heavy on my mind lately. This post brings catharsis but not much relief. Those are the things that worry me.


On the tangent, I&#039;m interested in this tension about teaching unengaged students. I wonder if students don&#039;t break down neatly into &quot;engaged&quot; and &quot;unengaged&quot;. I suspect there&#039;s a big middle of &quot;students who would and want to be engaged&quot; but are worn down by years of sit-there-and-listen, hoop-jump-ing and cram-and-regurgitate. Some of the brightest minds are the ones that check out under that kind of regimen. There&#039;s something slightly radical about trying to bring students out of their defensive armour, whoever you figure is to blame for it being there. Exhausting, but radical.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ouch. What-comes-after has been weighing heavy on my mind lately. This post brings catharsis but not much relief. Those are the things that worry me.</p>
<p>On the tangent, I&#8217;m interested in this tension about teaching unengaged students. I wonder if students don&#8217;t break down neatly into &#8220;engaged&#8221; and &#8220;unengaged&#8221;. I suspect there&#8217;s a big middle of &#8220;students who would and want to be engaged&#8221; but are worn down by years of sit-there-and-listen, hoop-jump-ing and cram-and-regurgitate. Some of the brightest minds are the ones that check out under that kind of regimen. There&#8217;s something slightly radical about trying to bring students out of their defensive armour, whoever you figure is to blame for it being there. Exhausting, but radical.</p>
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		<title>By: idgie</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16836</link>
		<dc:creator>idgie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Oct 2007 09:56:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16836</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m interested in this statement:  &quot;I do not believe you can do true ethnography under an IRB and it depresses me to think about all of the data that I&#039;ve collected that I cannot use in my dissertation because it didn&#039;t fit into an IRB-approved protocol.&quot;


Could you elaborate a bit?  Or rant about IRB in another entry?  I ask because while my experience with IRB has been incredibly frustrating because of their lack of competence and understanding of social science research, I don&#039;t see a particular barrier against having &quot;true&quot; ethnographic research approved through IRB as opposed to anything else.


Thanks for sharing your thought process around these hard decisions.  It is actually very comforting.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m interested in this statement:  &#8220;I do not believe you can do true ethnography under an IRB and it depresses me to think about all of the data that I&#8217;ve collected that I cannot use in my dissertation because it didn&#8217;t fit into an IRB-approved protocol.&#8221;</p>
<p>Could you elaborate a bit?  Or rant about IRB in another entry?  I ask because while my experience with IRB has been incredibly frustrating because of their lack of competence and understanding of social science research, I don&#8217;t see a particular barrier against having &#8220;true&#8221; ethnographic research approved through IRB as opposed to anything else.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your thought process around these hard decisions.  It is actually very comforting.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16835</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Oct 2007 05:25:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16835</guid>
		<description>Consider me a kindred spirit.  I had my own reckoning in 1998, when I was in my last year of a Ph.D. graduate program in Physics.  I wholly enjoyed teaching, even to several of the students who &#039;just needed that good grade to get into Physical Therapy&#039; or whatnot, and were not very interested in physics.  I considered it a challenge to make my subject interesting, and to give them a solid foundation that they could use in everyday life going forward.


I, too, left acedamia, and I&#039;ve been gone since &#039;99.  The one thing I really miss is the ability to just go to someone&#039;s office and just talk about some new idea that&#039;s on my mind (and have the reverse happen as well).  I still have the inclination to teach, and I find myself doing it on a daily basis, just not in the classroom.  Maybe someday if I get up the gumption, I&#039;ll see what I could do at a local liberal arts college, maybe teach at night, just to scratch that itch. :)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Consider me a kindred spirit.  I had my own reckoning in 1998, when I was in my last year of a Ph.D. graduate program in Physics.  I wholly enjoyed teaching, even to several of the students who &#8216;just needed that good grade to get into Physical Therapy&#8217; or whatnot, and were not very interested in physics.  I considered it a challenge to make my subject interesting, and to give them a solid foundation that they could use in everyday life going forward.</p>
<p>I, too, left acedamia, and I&#8217;ve been gone since &#8217;99.  The one thing I really miss is the ability to just go to someone&#8217;s office and just talk about some new idea that&#8217;s on my mind (and have the reverse happen as well).  I still have the inclination to teach, and I find myself doing it on a daily basis, just not in the classroom.  Maybe someday if I get up the gumption, I&#8217;ll see what I could do at a local liberal arts college, maybe teach at night, just to scratch that itch. <img src='http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: idontknow butiwantto</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16834</link>
		<dc:creator>idontknow butiwantto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 13:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16834</guid>
		<description>I wish we could meet. Many times in the blog, i had to say hey that is how i feel! and spent all the time shaking my head (I agree! I agree!). I am so sorry that you will not be staying in San Francisco(I study at SIMS, Berkeley).
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish we could meet. Many times in the blog, i had to say hey that is how i feel! and spent all the time shaking my head (I agree! I agree!). I am so sorry that you will not be staying in San Francisco(I study at SIMS, Berkeley).</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16833</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2007 17:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16833</guid>
		<description>Hear, hear. I have often struggled with the point of academia, myself. So much of what we are asked (or expected) to do seems designed to limit our effectiveness.


However, while I&#039;m not big on babysitting either, I am more than willing to help students find a way to find their own way. But I wholeheartedly agree that the dominant model of higher ed is particularly lame in that regard.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hear, hear. I have often struggled with the point of academia, myself. So much of what we are asked (or expected) to do seems designed to limit our effectiveness.</p>
<p>However, while I&#8217;m not big on babysitting either, I am more than willing to help students find a way to find their own way. But I wholeheartedly agree that the dominant model of higher ed is particularly lame in that regard.</p>
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		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html/comment-page-1#comment-16832</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2007 22:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/09/22/why_i_am_not_go.html#comment-16832</guid>
		<description>Is - I find your statement &quot;it also makes me concerned that there&#039;s a presumption that professors are entitled to teach students who are genuinely engaged&quot; a bit bothersome. I don&#039;t understand why professors who are trained to be good researchers (not good teachers) are expected to operate as babysitters for 18-22 year olds. College is not compulsory and there&#039;s no reason why students should be permitted to show up, not care, and expect good grades. That&#039;s not the point of college nor is it the reason why people choose to be a professor as a career path. If being a professor means being a babysitter for adults, I&#039;m definitely not interested in that job.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is &#8211; I find your statement &#8220;it also makes me concerned that there&#8217;s a presumption that professors are entitled to teach students who are genuinely engaged&#8221; a bit bothersome. I don&#8217;t understand why professors who are trained to be good researchers (not good teachers) are expected to operate as babysitters for 18-22 year olds. College is not compulsory and there&#8217;s no reason why students should be permitted to show up, not care, and expect good grades. That&#8217;s not the point of college nor is it the reason why people choose to be a professor as a career path. If being a professor means being a babysitter for adults, I&#8217;m definitely not interested in that job.</p>
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