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	<title>Comments on: For the record: I do not go to UCLA&#8230;. or to CalTech</title>
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		<title>By: yalova veteriner</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-41133</link>
		<dc:creator>yalova veteriner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 May 2010 12:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-41133</guid>
		<description>Just an intuition. I think we may see an explosion of high quality content on websites associated with the “traditional” media. Junior staffers assigned to the Web operation will be working twice as hard to prove that the internet medium can equal or surpass the traditional media – judged by traditional standards. And some of what will be produced in that mode will be truly extraordinary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just an intuition. I think we may see an explosion of high quality content on websites associated with the “traditional” media. Junior staffers assigned to the Web operation will be working twice as hard to prove that the internet medium can equal or surpass the traditional media – judged by traditional standards. And some of what will be produced in that mode will be truly extraordinary.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Meade</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16564</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Meade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16564</guid>
		<description>Terry Teachout had a couple of interesting things to say about editing his own Wikipedia entry here:


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_you_meet_the_nicest_people.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_you_meet_the_nicest_people.html&lt;/a&gt;


and here:


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_just_in_case_you_were_wonde_6.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_just_in_case_you_were_wonde_6.html&lt;/a&gt;




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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terry Teachout had a couple of interesting things to say about editing his own Wikipedia entry here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_you_meet_the_nicest_people.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_you_meet_the_nicest_people.html?referer=');">http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_you_meet_the_nicest_people.html</a></p>
<p>and here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_just_in_case_you_were_wonde_6.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_just_in_case_you_were_wonde_6.html?referer=');">http://www.artsjournal.com/aboutlastnight/2007/08/tt_just_in_case_you_were_wonde_6.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16563</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 20:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16563</guid>
		<description>Just an intuition. I think we may see an explosion of high quality content on websites associated with the &quot;traditional&quot; media. Junior staffers assigned to the Web operation will be working twice as hard to prove that the internet medium can equal or surpass the traditional media - judged by traditional standards. And some of what will be produced in that mode will be truly extraordinary.


-Steve
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just an intuition. I think we may see an explosion of high quality content on websites associated with the &#8220;traditional&#8221; media. Junior staffers assigned to the Web operation will be working twice as hard to prove that the internet medium can equal or surpass the traditional media &#8211; judged by traditional standards. And some of what will be produced in that mode will be truly extraordinary.</p>
<p>-Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Clyde Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16562</link>
		<dc:creator>Clyde Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 23:28:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16562</guid>
		<description>I briefly contributed to Wikipedia but found the whole process so absurd that I quickly withdrew.  And that&#039;s after years of DMOZ editing and those folks are a real pain!


I recently completed a Masters of Library Science via Texas Womans University.  Folks in Library &amp; Information Science have produced a lot of great resources including really excellent guides to evaluating web resources.


What I found disturbing was that even some of the faculty treated the Web as inherently untrustworthy until evaluated while treating traditional print resources as inherently trustworthy.


The Web&#039;s giving us an opportunity to forefront how we evaluate resources but I&#039;m generally surprised at how folks don&#039;t make the connections back to evaluating print or other resources associated with mainstream media.  I&#039;m especially disappointed that this moment in which problems with verifying online information are in the forefront is not being used as a larger teaching opportunity regarding resource evaluation.


I dig the NY Times but take any topic you know well and follow it there regularly and it&#039;s amazing how much nonsense makes it into that resource.


On that note, I worked with an educator who was surprised at some news I shared and asked me where I got it.  When I said &quot;on the Internet&quot;, she went &quot;Ohhhh&quot; in a knowing way as if that explained why it sounded so nuts.  When I followed with, &quot;on the NY Times website,&quot; she just got quiet.


Both responses were rather sad.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I briefly contributed to Wikipedia but found the whole process so absurd that I quickly withdrew.  And that&#8217;s after years of DMOZ editing and those folks are a real pain!</p>
<p>I recently completed a Masters of Library Science via Texas Womans University.  Folks in Library &#038; Information Science have produced a lot of great resources including really excellent guides to evaluating web resources.</p>
<p>What I found disturbing was that even some of the faculty treated the Web as inherently untrustworthy until evaluated while treating traditional print resources as inherently trustworthy.</p>
<p>The Web&#8217;s giving us an opportunity to forefront how we evaluate resources but I&#8217;m generally surprised at how folks don&#8217;t make the connections back to evaluating print or other resources associated with mainstream media.  I&#8217;m especially disappointed that this moment in which problems with verifying online information are in the forefront is not being used as a larger teaching opportunity regarding resource evaluation.</p>
<p>I dig the NY Times but take any topic you know well and follow it there regularly and it&#8217;s amazing how much nonsense makes it into that resource.</p>
<p>On that note, I worked with an educator who was surprised at some news I shared and asked me where I got it.  When I said &#8220;on the Internet&#8221;, she went &#8220;Ohhhh&#8221; in a knowing way as if that explained why it sounded so nuts.  When I followed with, &#8220;on the NY Times website,&#8221; she just got quiet.</p>
<p>Both responses were rather sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16561</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 15:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16561</guid>
		<description>From &lt;a&gt;Reign of Error&lt;/a&gt; [slate.com]:


&quot;The average newspaper should expand by a factor of 50 the amount of space given to corrections if Scott R. Maier&#039;s research is any guide.


Maier, an associate professor at the University of Oregon&#039;s School of Journalism and Communication, describes in a forthcoming research paper his findings that fewer than 2 percent of factually flawed articles are corrected at dailies.&quot;


Maybe if these papers incorporated some sort of wiki....
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From <a>Reign of Error</a> [slate.com]:</p>
<p>&#8220;The average newspaper should expand by a factor of 50 the amount of space given to corrections if Scott R. Maier&#8217;s research is any guide.</p>
<p>Maier, an associate professor at the University of Oregon&#8217;s School of Journalism and Communication, describes in a forthcoming research paper his findings that fewer than 2 percent of factually flawed articles are corrected at dailies.&#8221;</p>
<p>Maybe if these papers incorporated some sort of wiki&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16560</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:27:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16560</guid>
		<description>Correction - I now find that this was apparently not Gordie&#039;s original quote, as there is a slightly different version attributed to Rudyard Kipling.


-Steve
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correction &#8211; I now find that this was apparently not Gordie&#8217;s original quote, as there is a slightly different version attributed to Rudyard Kipling.</p>
<p>-Steve</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16559</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 01:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16559</guid>
		<description>&quot;Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage amongst his books. For to you Kingdoms and armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned by the flicking of a finger ...�


This quote originally appeared in Gordon R. Dickson&#039;s novel Tactics of Mistake (Gordie apparently preferred his name to be conventionally capitalized, and when writing professionally, included his middle initial, followed by a period.)


To my mind, the sentiment applies well to the present conflict. To users and creators of sites which feature socially created content, they indeed appear &quot;mighty and enduring&quot;. But danah, and others of her ilk are truly the &quot;sage amongst [her] books&quot;. Viewed analytically, Wikipedia is merely one experiment among many which litter the modern Internet landscape. If they do not find a way to repair the flaws in their process, they will end up in the dumpster of history. But perhaps others will have learned from their mistakes.


Just a thought,
-Steve


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Trouble rather the tiger in his lair than the sage amongst his books. For to you Kingdoms and armies are things mighty and enduring, but to him they are but toys of the moment, to be overturned by the flicking of a finger &#8230;�</p>
<p>This quote originally appeared in Gordon R. Dickson&#8217;s novel Tactics of Mistake (Gordie apparently preferred his name to be conventionally capitalized, and when writing professionally, included his middle initial, followed by a period.)</p>
<p>To my mind, the sentiment applies well to the present conflict. To users and creators of sites which feature socially created content, they indeed appear &#8220;mighty and enduring&#8221;. But danah, and others of her ilk are truly the &#8220;sage amongst [her] books&#8221;. Viewed analytically, Wikipedia is merely one experiment among many which litter the modern Internet landscape. If they do not find a way to repair the flaws in their process, they will end up in the dumpster of history. But perhaps others will have learned from their mistakes.</p>
<p>Just a thought,<br />
-Steve</p>
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		<title>By: John Connell</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16558</link>
		<dc:creator>John Connell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 23:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16558</guid>
		<description>&quot;Personally, I&#039;m inclined to take anything from Boyd&#039;s website with a grain of salt, as Boyd&#039;s area of research is social networking, and for all we know this is some grand experiment on how the rules can be pushed.&quot;


Okay, the first part is empty-headed prejudice, but the second part is not a bad description, in some ways, of at least an aspect of social networking.  :)
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Personally, I&#8217;m inclined to take anything from Boyd&#8217;s website with a grain of salt, as Boyd&#8217;s area of research is social networking, and for all we know this is some grand experiment on how the rules can be pushed.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay, the first part is empty-headed prejudice, but the second part is not a bad description, in some ways, of at least an aspect of social networking.  <img src='http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: James Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16557</link>
		<dc:creator>James Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 16:34:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16557</guid>
		<description>Oh, dear.


First, let me apologize if the increased traffic on the discussion page for that article has caused you any distress, because it&#039;s largely my fault for having been naive enough to wander in, wonder why they were capitalizing your name, and try to argue for the change.


The past month or so has been an &quot;interesting&quot; experience for me, let&#039;s put it that way. I understand where Kat&#039;s coming from, but after being on the receiving end of the 9-on-1 &quot;all hail the holy NYT&quot; gangbang that was the discussion of whether the article on danah should capitalize her name, I hope I&#039;ll be forgiven for being somewhat disillusioned.


The good news is that nothing&#039;s ever final on Wikipedia, that articles can be edited (most of the time, by most people) and that there are processes in place for amending the policies and guidelines; in fact, I posted a proposal recently to amend the style guide to explicitly allow lower-case names, since there&#039;s more than one article where that&#039;s a problem.


But the bad news is that Wikipedia is extremely friendly to cliques and echo chambers and makes it easy for them to obtain disproportionate levels of power: relatively small groups of like-minded people can declare themselves to be a &quot;consensus&quot;, and God help whoever gets in their way (I lost track of how many times I was threatened by one Wikipedia admin during that debate).


And really, I think that&#039;s more problematic than fetishizing mainstream media; it&#039;s usually possible to cite sources with more authority than general media, and typically those sources will &quot;win&quot; a given debate, but against a determined clique with strong opinions, there&#039;s little to no hope; there will inevitably be a moment where there are enough of them arguing the same thing at the same time to get it declared a &quot;consensus&quot; and shut down any opposition.


I&#039;m still trying valiantly to employ the principle of charity, though...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, dear.</p>
<p>First, let me apologize if the increased traffic on the discussion page for that article has caused you any distress, because it&#8217;s largely my fault for having been naive enough to wander in, wonder why they were capitalizing your name, and try to argue for the change.</p>
<p>The past month or so has been an &#8220;interesting&#8221; experience for me, let&#8217;s put it that way. I understand where Kat&#8217;s coming from, but after being on the receiving end of the 9-on-1 &#8220;all hail the holy NYT&#8221; gangbang that was the discussion of whether the article on danah should capitalize her name, I hope I&#8217;ll be forgiven for being somewhat disillusioned.</p>
<p>The good news is that nothing&#8217;s ever final on Wikipedia, that articles can be edited (most of the time, by most people) and that there are processes in place for amending the policies and guidelines; in fact, I posted a proposal recently to amend the style guide to explicitly allow lower-case names, since there&#8217;s more than one article where that&#8217;s a problem.</p>
<p>But the bad news is that Wikipedia is extremely friendly to cliques and echo chambers and makes it easy for them to obtain disproportionate levels of power: relatively small groups of like-minded people can declare themselves to be a &#8220;consensus&#8221;, and God help whoever gets in their way (I lost track of how many times I was threatened by one Wikipedia admin during that debate).</p>
<p>And really, I think that&#8217;s more problematic than fetishizing mainstream media; it&#8217;s usually possible to cite sources with more authority than general media, and typically those sources will &#8220;win&#8221; a given debate, but against a determined clique with strong opinions, there&#8217;s little to no hope; there will inevitably be a moment where there are enough of them arguing the same thing at the same time to get it declared a &#8220;consensus&#8221; and shut down any opposition.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still trying valiantly to employ the principle of charity, though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sally J.</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html/comment-page-1#comment-16556</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 12:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/08/13/for_the_record.html#comment-16556</guid>
		<description>There were some uncivil words exchanged when author Fred Saberhagen died and a Wikipedia editor refused to accept Harlan Ellison as a reliable source. It was the first time I became aware of how heavily (blindly?) Wikipedia relies on mass media. Link goes to John Scalzi&#039;s blog.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/2007/07/02/fred_saberhagen_is_dead_but_no.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fred Saberhagen is Dead, But Not On Wikipedia&lt;/a&gt;


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were some uncivil words exchanged when author Fred Saberhagen died and a Wikipedia editor refused to accept Harlan Ellison as a reliable source. It was the first time I became aware of how heavily (blindly?) Wikipedia relies on mass media. Link goes to John Scalzi&#8217;s blog.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.scalzi.com/whatever/2007/07/02/fred_saberhagen_is_dead_but_no.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.scalzi.com/whatever/2007/07/02/fred_saberhagen_is_dead_but_no.html?referer=');">Fred Saberhagen is Dead, But Not On Wikipedia</a></p>
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