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	<title>Comments on: dystruktshun of inglesh as we no</title>
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		<title>By: arthron</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15581</link>
		<dc:creator>arthron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 04:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15581</guid>
		<description>written/spoken language used to mutate only according to historical and territorial dynamics. for example, present-day scottish and southern US english are spoken differently because of time and place [very broad generalization]. interesting then how language maybe be mutating now according to the characteristics of digital space and the devices we use to interface within it. double interesting: how that digital version of a language gets inserted back into physical space in a constant feedback loop.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>written/spoken language used to mutate only according to historical and territorial dynamics. for example, present-day scottish and southern US english are spoken differently because of time and place [very broad generalization]. interesting then how language maybe be mutating now according to the characteristics of digital space and the devices we use to interface within it. double interesting: how that digital version of a language gets inserted back into physical space in a constant feedback loop.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15580</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 17:47:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15580</guid>
		<description>danah,


The trends you discuss are rooted, at least in part, in practices that predate cyberspace.


For instance, in my Junior High days in the late fifties early sixties it was not uncommon for girls to &quot;personalize&quot; their names. Most common was the inversion of &quot;i&quot; and &quot;y&quot;. Thus Terry became Terri, Trudy changed to Trudi, Linda morphed into Lynda. etc.


We also see in those days the beginnings of abbreviation slang. Who hasn&#039;t seen a yearbook signed KIT,  or a letter marked SWAK. And I think it was during the early seventies, if not earlier, that &quot;tough&quot; metmorphasized into &quot;tuff&quot; as a term of approval and coolness.


The rise of cyberspace certainly accelerated those trends, but in no way originated them.


So, lets jump forward in time.


It&#039;s been most of a generation, probably several generations of teen culture, since the origin of online chat in venues like IRC. I never saw much IRC, because I didn&#039;t like the quick pace or the brevity. I was always more of a usenet guy. But I was aware of the abbrevation conventions, and by the time I discovered Yahoo chat, which I did log onto occasionally, the trend was in full swing, lol. U no?


And the motivation is obvious. Chat is a high paced medium with severe limitation on effective bandwidth. Thus the motivation for adopting ad hoc compression algorithims is obvious.


And there are a couple of other streams leading into this river. One is the &quot;133t&quot; speech of the hacker community. As far as I know, this was motivated by pure desire for coolness. Interestingly, it seems to mark the first large scale entry into the lingustic mods game for young males, which had previously been more of a female domain. Perhaps we are seeing the rise of equal opportunity social insecurity.


And then there&#039;s the rap/hip-hop community. I know almost nothing about that, except that the lingustic mods present there appear to eerily mirror those found online. What is cause, what is effect, and what is convergent evolution I wouldn&#039;t venture to guess.


And, in doing a little googling to write this, I have come across references to gamer slang. I will not pursue that, but it is probably worth taking a look at.


Have fun,
-Steve
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>danah,</p>
<p>The trends you discuss are rooted, at least in part, in practices that predate cyberspace.</p>
<p>For instance, in my Junior High days in the late fifties early sixties it was not uncommon for girls to &#8220;personalize&#8221; their names. Most common was the inversion of &#8220;i&#8221; and &#8220;y&#8221;. Thus Terry became Terri, Trudy changed to Trudi, Linda morphed into Lynda. etc.</p>
<p>We also see in those days the beginnings of abbreviation slang. Who hasn&#8217;t seen a yearbook signed KIT,  or a letter marked SWAK. And I think it was during the early seventies, if not earlier, that &#8220;tough&#8221; metmorphasized into &#8220;tuff&#8221; as a term of approval and coolness.</p>
<p>The rise of cyberspace certainly accelerated those trends, but in no way originated them.</p>
<p>So, lets jump forward in time.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been most of a generation, probably several generations of teen culture, since the origin of online chat in venues like IRC. I never saw much IRC, because I didn&#8217;t like the quick pace or the brevity. I was always more of a usenet guy. But I was aware of the abbrevation conventions, and by the time I discovered Yahoo chat, which I did log onto occasionally, the trend was in full swing, lol. U no?</p>
<p>And the motivation is obvious. Chat is a high paced medium with severe limitation on effective bandwidth. Thus the motivation for adopting ad hoc compression algorithims is obvious.</p>
<p>And there are a couple of other streams leading into this river. One is the &#8220;133t&#8221; speech of the hacker community. As far as I know, this was motivated by pure desire for coolness. Interestingly, it seems to mark the first large scale entry into the lingustic mods game for young males, which had previously been more of a female domain. Perhaps we are seeing the rise of equal opportunity social insecurity.</p>
<p>And then there&#8217;s the rap/hip-hop community. I know almost nothing about that, except that the lingustic mods present there appear to eerily mirror those found online. What is cause, what is effect, and what is convergent evolution I wouldn&#8217;t venture to guess.</p>
<p>And, in doing a little googling to write this, I have come across references to gamer slang. I will not pursue that, but it is probably worth taking a look at.</p>
<p>Have fun,<br />
-Steve</p>
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		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15579</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 09:27:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15579</guid>
		<description>I suspect that it&#039;s not just an issue of 20-year olds... i designed this myself, but i&#039;ve only ever tested it on a Mac - i have no idea what it looks like on a PC.  I desperately want someone to redesign my blog but i haven&#039;t had time to deal with that.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that it&#8217;s not just an issue of 20-year olds&#8230; i designed this myself, but i&#8217;ve only ever tested it on a Mac &#8211; i have no idea what it looks like on a PC.  I desperately want someone to redesign my blog but i haven&#8217;t had time to deal with that.</p>
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		<title>By: Deirdre Straughan</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15578</link>
		<dc:creator>Deirdre Straughan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 01:13:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15578</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a little piece about SMS abbreviations used in Italy: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.beginningwithi.com/italy/lang/italiansmsspeak.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.beginningwithi.com/italy/lang/italiansmsspeak.html&lt;/a&gt;


Aside: I find your blog hard to read with the tiny font (not a candidate for Lasik myself), but if I increase the font, the comments get cut off on the right side.


I wish all blog software themes were not designed by 20 year olds - when they reach 45 themselves they&#039;ll realize why they never kept any older readers...
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a little piece about SMS abbreviations used in Italy: <a href="http://www.beginningwithi.com/italy/lang/italiansmsspeak.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.beginningwithi.com/italy/lang/italiansmsspeak.html?referer=');">http://www.beginningwithi.com/italy/lang/italiansmsspeak.html</a></p>
<p>Aside: I find your blog hard to read with the tiny font (not a candidate for Lasik myself), but if I increase the font, the comments get cut off on the right side.</p>
<p>I wish all blog software themes were not designed by 20 year olds &#8211; when they reach 45 themselves they&#8217;ll realize why they never kept any older readers&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Suw</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15577</link>
		<dc:creator>Suw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 03:55:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15577</guid>
		<description>As someone whose name is based on a misspelling of my own, I&#039;m not one to talk! However, I think that technology amplifies existing behaviours, so my gut feeling is that this seems worse than it is.


We won&#039;t know for a while yet what sort of long-term impact this txt and l33t-style spelling has on current teens&#039; spelling and grammar as they mature. I know a lot of adults, for example, who can t4lk p3rf3c7ly w2ll 1n l33t, but we all know when l33t is amusing and when it is inappropriate. I&#039;d never write a business email in l33t or txt or any other of the lax spelling/grammatical styles I use on Twitter or IM or IRC, because I want to present a particular facet of myself - my businessperson side.


So the question is, as these teens mature past their early 20s and into that period of life where it becomes important to be able to present a serious and professional side of yourself to those you hope will pay you a living, will they be able to adapt to more formal styles of communication? I suspect that yes, they will, because they&#039;ll have to. If they don&#039;t, then we have a problem because clear and professional communications skills are going to be even more important in the future than they are now, particularly with this increasing trend towards knowledge-based jobs and the collapse (you see it especially in the UK) of the manufacturing sector.


I&#039;d also like to make the point about native languages that aren&#039;t English. I can only discuss my second language, Welsh, but I do know that teens in Welsh are doing the same thing by creating txt abbreviations of common words. Welsh speakers are also making increasing use of the internet as a venue to use and preserve their language, so I actually think the net is a valuable part of the future of native/minority languages rather than inevitably an erosive force.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone whose name is based on a misspelling of my own, I&#8217;m not one to talk! However, I think that technology amplifies existing behaviours, so my gut feeling is that this seems worse than it is.</p>
<p>We won&#8217;t know for a while yet what sort of long-term impact this txt and l33t-style spelling has on current teens&#8217; spelling and grammar as they mature. I know a lot of adults, for example, who can t4lk p3rf3c7ly w2ll 1n l33t, but we all know when l33t is amusing and when it is inappropriate. I&#8217;d never write a business email in l33t or txt or any other of the lax spelling/grammatical styles I use on Twitter or IM or IRC, because I want to present a particular facet of myself &#8211; my businessperson side.</p>
<p>So the question is, as these teens mature past their early 20s and into that period of life where it becomes important to be able to present a serious and professional side of yourself to those you hope will pay you a living, will they be able to adapt to more formal styles of communication? I suspect that yes, they will, because they&#8217;ll have to. If they don&#8217;t, then we have a problem because clear and professional communications skills are going to be even more important in the future than they are now, particularly with this increasing trend towards knowledge-based jobs and the collapse (you see it especially in the UK) of the manufacturing sector.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d also like to make the point about native languages that aren&#8217;t English. I can only discuss my second language, Welsh, but I do know that teens in Welsh are doing the same thing by creating txt abbreviations of common words. Welsh speakers are also making increasing use of the internet as a venue to use and preserve their language, so I actually think the net is a valuable part of the future of native/minority languages rather than inevitably an erosive force.</p>
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		<title>By: Alexa</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15576</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 00:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15576</guid>
		<description>I actually find this &#039;destruction&#039; really fascinating. Language is rarely truly logical or followed strict rules IMO, and for linguists, this evolution must be extremely interesting to study. Teens usually struggle with language register, mainly due to the large difference between expression between peers and expression needed when dealing with &#039;authority&#039; figures. Indeed, I experience the same problem in foreign languages... English in the UK is also evolving due to the influence of ethnic minority styles of expression (e.g. the &#039;innit&#039; stuck at the end of a sentence). OK, teens do need to know the difference between the different language registers, but that&#039;s another matter. Kids will be kids, and they stimulate change - which often makes older people uncomfortable... Despite all this, some people buck the trend: my mom seems to know way more SMS slang than I do!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually find this &#8216;destruction&#8217; really fascinating. Language is rarely truly logical or followed strict rules IMO, and for linguists, this evolution must be extremely interesting to study. Teens usually struggle with language register, mainly due to the large difference between expression between peers and expression needed when dealing with &#8216;authority&#8217; figures. Indeed, I experience the same problem in foreign languages&#8230; English in the UK is also evolving due to the influence of ethnic minority styles of expression (e.g. the &#8216;innit&#8217; stuck at the end of a sentence). OK, teens do need to know the difference between the different language registers, but that&#8217;s another matter. Kids will be kids, and they stimulate change &#8211; which often makes older people uncomfortable&#8230; Despite all this, some people buck the trend: my mom seems to know way more SMS slang than I do!</p>
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		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15575</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 11:01:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15575</guid>
		<description>Lauren - i think in my attempt to be pithy, i miscommunicated what i&#039;m thinking.  I do believe that English as we know it is being destroyed (or perhaps radically altered... i chose destruction because it was more fun to spell than altered), but i don&#039;t think that&#039;s a bad thing.  I think that languages evolve (spelling, grammar, pronunciation, etc.) and what i suspect is taking place is that the evolutionary process is moving much faster than before, making it easier to spot and to get concerned.  I think that the &quot;OMG the world is ending&quot; panic is foolish because languages always evolve.  So i tend to find the whole thing funny.  At the same time, i think that the technology is playing a big role in this.  And i think it&#039;s interesting to think about how technology&#039;s affordances are shaping the current changes as well as speed of change.  But in *no* way am i advocating that people should try to stop this change.  I&#039;m more curious as to where it will go and what pushback will happen because of the speed of change.  I mean, we know that teachers are trying to maintain status quo, but the fact is that teens barely write anything in the American &quot;No Child Left Behind&quot; curriculum so i doubt that &quot;traditional&quot; English writing going to be valued tremendously.  ::shrug::  I just think it&#039;s fascinating.  But sorry for not being clear.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lauren &#8211; i think in my attempt to be pithy, i miscommunicated what i&#8217;m thinking.  I do believe that English as we know it is being destroyed (or perhaps radically altered&#8230; i chose destruction because it was more fun to spell than altered), but i don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a bad thing.  I think that languages evolve (spelling, grammar, pronunciation, etc.) and what i suspect is taking place is that the evolutionary process is moving much faster than before, making it easier to spot and to get concerned.  I think that the &#8220;OMG the world is ending&#8221; panic is foolish because languages always evolve.  So i tend to find the whole thing funny.  At the same time, i think that the technology is playing a big role in this.  And i think it&#8217;s interesting to think about how technology&#8217;s affordances are shaping the current changes as well as speed of change.  But in *no* way am i advocating that people should try to stop this change.  I&#8217;m more curious as to where it will go and what pushback will happen because of the speed of change.  I mean, we know that teachers are trying to maintain status quo, but the fact is that teens barely write anything in the American &#8220;No Child Left Behind&#8221; curriculum so i doubt that &#8220;traditional&#8221; English writing going to be valued tremendously.  ::shrug::  I just think it&#8217;s fascinating.  But sorry for not being clear.</p>
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		<title>By: moco</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15574</link>
		<dc:creator>moco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 09:12:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15574</guid>
		<description>also I just noticed your note: &quot;Accurate spelling is necessary or the comment&quot; will be junked. Interesting in that you could be filtering out ppl who use the spelling you are citing.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>also I just noticed your note: &#8220;Accurate spelling is necessary or the comment&#8221; will be junked. Interesting in that you could be filtering out ppl who use the spelling you are citing.</p>
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		<title>By: moco</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15573</link>
		<dc:creator>moco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 09:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15573</guid>
		<description>&quot;This is pretty well known outside of the US where SMS-speak has destroyed native tongues everywhere, but we&#039;re only about a year into massive texting adoption amongst teens in the States.&quot;


&quot;Destroyed native tongues&quot;? that&#039;s pretty heavy handed, and if your hope that this is just a natural evolution of English, why can&#039;t it have been evolution in other languages, too?




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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This is pretty well known outside of the US where SMS-speak has destroyed native tongues everywhere, but we&#8217;re only about a year into massive texting adoption amongst teens in the States.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Destroyed native tongues&#8221;? that&#8217;s pretty heavy handed, and if your hope that this is just a natural evolution of English, why can&#8217;t it have been evolution in other languages, too?</p>
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		<title>By: Cathexys</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html/comment-page-1#comment-15572</link>
		<dc:creator>Cathexys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2007 07:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2007/05/08/dystruktshun_of.html#comment-15572</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not just teens. When I was looking for an LJ user name four years ago, the one I wanted was taken. I changed the spelling, and have had several people tell me that they&#039;re misspelling cathexis these days on a regular basis :)


Then again, there&#039;s also a sense of making a word your own, making it *your* name. I think it might be connected to our obsession with individualism and the wide variances when you look at actual names, where often dozens of spellings co-exist, from Kaitlynne to Antwon.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not just teens. When I was looking for an LJ user name four years ago, the one I wanted was taken. I changed the spelling, and have had several people tell me that they&#8217;re misspelling cathexis these days on a regular basis <img src='http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Then again, there&#8217;s also a sense of making a word your own, making it *your* name. I think it might be connected to our obsession with individualism and the wide variances when you look at actual names, where often dozens of spellings co-exist, from Kaitlynne to Antwon.</p>
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