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	<title>Comments on: The Term &#8220;Social Network(ing) Sites&#8221;</title>
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	<description>making connections where none previously existed</description>
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		<title>By: Dermot Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14326</link>
		<dc:creator>Dermot Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 May 2008 12:36:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14326</guid>
		<description>my experience is Networks mania is for immature millions &#039;Running around&#039; -  Huge scrabbling in, dross unrelated out.


my experience is: Scrabble in and get 66% unrelated and 20% odious spam exploitation out


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my experience is Networks mania is for immature millions &#8216;Running around&#8217; &#8211;  Huge scrabbling in, dross unrelated out.</p>
<p>my experience is: Scrabble in and get 66% unrelated and 20% odious spam exploitation out</p>
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		<title>By: Don Steiny</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14325</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Steiny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 13:13:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14325</guid>
		<description>In on of the descriptions of networking, it was about being a better person, selling or whatever.  To me that is the difference.  We are all part of many social networks from the time we are very small.  People had social networks before there were computers or the Internet.  We don&#039;t make those networks to get something and often we have to think hard to even know they are there.  They are like language, we use it all the time but don&#039;t pay attention to it too often.  In fact, it requres special training to go meta to it.


I tend to think of &quot;networking&quot; as instrumental.  One networks to get something.  Joel Podonly, a highly regarded network analyst now at Harvard says &quot;by the time you need to network - it&#039;s too late.&quot;  We can use the networks we have built in our lives for information and lots of cool stuff, but they are not built by trying to get things out of people, they are built by giving to or exchanging things with people.  If someone goes to a party to sell real estate, there are lots of influence techniques he or she can use to develop rapport with someone he or she meets, and sometimes that can be effective.  The individuals may become part of that person&#039;s social networks.  But to think of this a all of what social networks are is missing the core of social networks.


Because of how much we learn by social learning, social networks teach us, they give words meaning, they are the source of or beliefs and values, they even influence and to some degree create or personalities.  Our very personhood come from context.




</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In on of the descriptions of networking, it was about being a better person, selling or whatever.  To me that is the difference.  We are all part of many social networks from the time we are very small.  People had social networks before there were computers or the Internet.  We don&#8217;t make those networks to get something and often we have to think hard to even know they are there.  They are like language, we use it all the time but don&#8217;t pay attention to it too often.  In fact, it requres special training to go meta to it.</p>
<p>I tend to think of &#8220;networking&#8221; as instrumental.  One networks to get something.  Joel Podonly, a highly regarded network analyst now at Harvard says &#8220;by the time you need to network &#8211; it&#8217;s too late.&#8221;  We can use the networks we have built in our lives for information and lots of cool stuff, but they are not built by trying to get things out of people, they are built by giving to or exchanging things with people.  If someone goes to a party to sell real estate, there are lots of influence techniques he or she can use to develop rapport with someone he or she meets, and sometimes that can be effective.  The individuals may become part of that person&#8217;s social networks.  But to think of this a all of what social networks are is missing the core of social networks.</p>
<p>Because of how much we learn by social learning, social networks teach us, they give words meaning, they are the source of or beliefs and values, they even influence and to some degree create or personalities.  Our very personhood come from context.</p>
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		<title>By: gobiram</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14324</link>
		<dc:creator>gobiram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Oct 2006 02:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14324</guid>
		<description>hai,
i want to make many friends,please help me for the same.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hai,<br />
i want to make many friends,please help me for the same.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma Pele</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14323</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma Pele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14323</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m always amazed when academics in a particular field turn into the language police.  Language is always changing.  Words are taken and adapted by different groups of people. And, in fact, this will happen more and more in the world of. . . dare I say it. . .social networking! What will happen if we set the words free to be used as people like?  Is the fear of a potential ego loss, a fear that the basis on which these edifices are built might crumble?  Well, doubtful.  I think the teens know more than the academics, since they are perfectly savvy about context.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m always amazed when academics in a particular field turn into the language police.  Language is always changing.  Words are taken and adapted by different groups of people. And, in fact, this will happen more and more in the world of. . . dare I say it. . .social networking! What will happen if we set the words free to be used as people like?  Is the fear of a potential ego loss, a fear that the basis on which these edifices are built might crumble?  Well, doubtful.  I think the teens know more than the academics, since they are perfectly savvy about context.</p>
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		<title>By: cat!</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14322</link>
		<dc:creator>cat!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14322</guid>
		<description>Hi, I just came upon this post and havent read all replies yet... so this entry may have evolved into something else already, but I just want to state about the main topic....maybe its because Im in Malaysia or maybe its just my age (not young) that I only came upon the term &quot;social networking sites&quot; pretty late this year.
Even wrote a feature about it, but from the tech industry point of view which hardly scratches the surface of what Danah is doing here.


To the point it never occurred to me that the term was inaccurate. But, in all honesty...I think it could even generally refer to a blog community like those found on ie. Blogspot, Blogsome, etc etc.


After all, arent the conventional social networking websites taking on text blog features now? And even video/music blogging etc.?


The same is almost true of blogs...the hardworking  bloggers or at least those who&#039;d like to retain more of their identity without having a MySpace or Facebook brand, go to the extent of adding features so that their friends, visitors can not only just visit but can also leave comments or chat. Or drop in to view a video or listen to music.


From what I understand - Social networks (online)or social networking sites create the structures (blogs, photo sharing sites etc etc) for peeps to locate each other and communicate (if they wish), or even keep friends and relatives in the know about going-ons. Too lazy to mass email peeps about how your weekend turned out? Just send them link to your blog. IMHO. (Or is there another term for this relationship structure and way of communication?)








</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, I just came upon this post and havent read all replies yet&#8230; so this entry may have evolved into something else already, but I just want to state about the main topic&#8230;.maybe its because Im in Malaysia or maybe its just my age (not young) that I only came upon the term &#8220;social networking sites&#8221; pretty late this year.<br />
Even wrote a feature about it, but from the tech industry point of view which hardly scratches the surface of what Danah is doing here.</p>
<p>To the point it never occurred to me that the term was inaccurate. But, in all honesty&#8230;I think it could even generally refer to a blog community like those found on ie. Blogspot, Blogsome, etc etc.</p>
<p>After all, arent the conventional social networking websites taking on text blog features now? And even video/music blogging etc.?</p>
<p>The same is almost true of blogs&#8230;the hardworking  bloggers or at least those who&#8217;d like to retain more of their identity without having a MySpace or Facebook brand, go to the extent of adding features so that their friends, visitors can not only just visit but can also leave comments or chat. Or drop in to view a video or listen to music.</p>
<p>From what I understand &#8211; Social networks (online)or social networking sites create the structures (blogs, photo sharing sites etc etc) for peeps to locate each other and communicate (if they wish), or even keep friends and relatives in the know about going-ons. Too lazy to mass email peeps about how your weekend turned out? Just send them link to your blog. IMHO. (Or is there another term for this relationship structure and way of communication?)</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Ellis</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14321</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Ellis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 12:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14321</guid>
		<description>hi, i didnt read your blog, but i did see you in a picture with meghan terhune on blogher or whatever that was, i&#039;ve been trying to get a hold of her forever i dont have any of her contact info, would you happen to know her email , or phone number or something? i&#039;m an old friend that hasn&#039;t talked to her in ages. i really miss her and would like to get a hold of her somehow. please get back to me! my email is stzaellis@yahoo.com or my phone number is 1-206-861-5953.


thank you so much


-Justin Ellis
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hi, i didnt read your blog, but i did see you in a picture with meghan terhune on blogher or whatever that was, i&#8217;ve been trying to get a hold of her forever i dont have any of her contact info, would you happen to know her email , or phone number or something? i&#8217;m an old friend that hasn&#8217;t talked to her in ages. i really miss her and would like to get a hold of her somehow. please get back to me! my email is <a href="mailto:stzaellis@yahoo.com">stzaellis@yahoo.com</a> or my phone number is 1-206-861-5953.</p>
<p>thank you so much</p>
<p>-Justin Ellis</p>
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		<title>By: J.D. Falk</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14320</link>
		<dc:creator>J.D. Falk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 11:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14320</guid>
		<description>Looks like most of the commenters thus far are talking about the fear of these sites, so I&#039;d like to talk about the hope.


At their best, these sites (whatever the end up being called) &lt;i&gt;support&lt;/i&gt; social networks by providing additional communications &amp; sharing tools, and (most exciting to me personally) encouraging people to think about the many interpersonal connections they already have in their lives.  This can, I think, lead to a moment of enlightment as more people realize that we are &lt;i&gt;all&lt;/i&gt; connected.


In practice, however, it seems that most of these sites just &lt;i&gt;get in the way&lt;/i&gt; of existing networks -- either through ad saturation like evite, or poorly designed and/or unusably slow UI like so many, or easily foreseen privacy debacles and general FUD like we&#039;ve seen recently with myspace, facebook, etcetera.


But with any of those, it seems to me that social networks are still very much the core of what these sites are offering and/or trying to capitalize upon -- so perhaps the term still fits.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like most of the commenters thus far are talking about the fear of these sites, so I&#8217;d like to talk about the hope.</p>
<p>At their best, these sites (whatever the end up being called) <i>support</i> social networks by providing additional communications &#038; sharing tools, and (most exciting to me personally) encouraging people to think about the many interpersonal connections they already have in their lives.  This can, I think, lead to a moment of enlightment as more people realize that we are <i>all</i> connected.</p>
<p>In practice, however, it seems that most of these sites just <i>get in the way</i> of existing networks &#8212; either through ad saturation like evite, or poorly designed and/or unusably slow UI like so many, or easily foreseen privacy debacles and general FUD like we&#8217;ve seen recently with myspace, facebook, etcetera.</p>
<p>But with any of those, it seems to me that social networks are still very much the core of what these sites are offering and/or trying to capitalize upon &#8212; so perhaps the term still fits.</p>
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		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14319</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Sep 2006 13:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14319</guid>
		<description>I apologize - i&#039;ve been offline and unable to respond to the comments here.


Here&#039;s the thing... Networking is *perceived* as problematic by most parents AND it&#039;s not what most youth do.  It obfuscates their primary practice and improperly conveys the intention of most users on most of these systems.  The sites originally positioned themselves as &quot;social networks&quot; without the site.  The phrase &quot;social networking site&quot; came about through the media.  And you will often hear parents on TV ask why their teens need to be networking.  (And it&#039;s not just a matter of for business, it&#039;s for anything.)


I think it&#039;s great that some folks are networking on these sites but i think to assume that it&#039;s the primary practice is problematic.  It&#039;s a framing issue.


Lauren - i like your point about [repartitioning] but i think that it&#039;s not what people hear.  And it&#039;s certainly not what the sociologists hear when folks talk about social networking as a practice.


While social media is great for an overarching term, there are good reasons to talk about this particular kind of site and namely, the primary feature that is being offered: the explicit articulation of &quot;friends&quot; that results in a visible network that people can navigate.  In this way, i talk about LinkedIn and an SNS but not as a public where folks hang out.  It&#039;s pretty asocial in that way.




</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologize &#8211; i&#8217;ve been offline and unable to respond to the comments here.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the thing&#8230; Networking is *perceived* as problematic by most parents AND it&#8217;s not what most youth do.  It obfuscates their primary practice and improperly conveys the intention of most users on most of these systems.  The sites originally positioned themselves as &#8220;social networks&#8221; without the site.  The phrase &#8220;social networking site&#8221; came about through the media.  And you will often hear parents on TV ask why their teens need to be networking.  (And it&#8217;s not just a matter of for business, it&#8217;s for anything.)</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s great that some folks are networking on these sites but i think to assume that it&#8217;s the primary practice is problematic.  It&#8217;s a framing issue.</p>
<p>Lauren &#8211; i like your point about [repartitioning] but i think that it&#8217;s not what people hear.  And it&#8217;s certainly not what the sociologists hear when folks talk about social networking as a practice.</p>
<p>While social media is great for an overarching term, there are good reasons to talk about this particular kind of site and namely, the primary feature that is being offered: the explicit articulation of &#8220;friends&#8221; that results in a visible network that people can navigate.  In this way, i talk about LinkedIn and an SNS but not as a public where folks hang out.  It&#8217;s pretty asocial in that way.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Berens</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14318</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Berens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Sep 2006 11:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14318</guid>
		<description>What about using &quot;social media&quot; as the larger umbrella term? Within that category, you could then mark out sites like MySpace or Facebook or Minty as networks or online networks. At iMediaConnection.com, where I am the exec editor, we are toying with changing over to &quot;social media&quot; as the umbrella term for blogs, MySpace, and the like.
&lt;p&gt;
And I&#039;d like to second Heidi Adkisson&#039;s objection to your notion that business networking is inherently false-- it certainly CAN be false, but just because networking has an over and capitalist agenda doesn&#039;t make the connections, when they occur, any less genuine than in an environment bounded by a school affiliation (Facebook) or no affilation (MySpace) or any other affiliation (Tribe, Gather...). I&#039;ve made real friends in all my careers, and also made acquaintances with whom I hang out only while I&#039;m in that field.
&lt;p&gt;
One failure as a social network -- speaking only from my own experience -- is LinkedIn.  It&#039;s a handy service and I use it regularly, but it seems to only be a resource, a space, rather than an online place where I&#039;d go to connect with folks in a more meaningful way.
&lt;p&gt;
This all lends pressure to the question about what defines an online community. Michael Gilbert of the Center for the Digital Future and I have a running debate about whether dating sites count as online communities. He thinks they don&#039;t. I think they do.  Just because somebody joins a community with an agenda and with only a transient commitment to the community, as in many dating sites, that doesn&#039;t, to my way of thinking, make the community any less a community.  We certainly tend to think of our schools as communities, but we&#039;re only in those for a short time and with a clear agenda.
&lt;p&gt;
More generally still, I think that it IS worthwhile to, as Ms. Boyd has done in her initial post, take seriously the needs and opinions of traditional social scientists. The commercially available internet is still relatively new, and so being able to communicate productively with traditional social science seems worthwhile, particularly if we want to advocate for the internet within those communities.
&lt;p&gt;
All best,
&lt;p&gt;
Brad Berens, Ph.D.
Exec Editor
iMedia Communications
www.imediaconnection.com
&amp; now blogging at
www.mediavorous.com
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about using &#8220;social media&#8221; as the larger umbrella term? Within that category, you could then mark out sites like MySpace or Facebook or Minty as networks or online networks. At iMediaConnection.com, where I am the exec editor, we are toying with changing over to &#8220;social media&#8221; as the umbrella term for blogs, MySpace, and the like.</p>
<p>
And I&#8217;d like to second Heidi Adkisson&#8217;s objection to your notion that business networking is inherently false&#8211; it certainly CAN be false, but just because networking has an over and capitalist agenda doesn&#8217;t make the connections, when they occur, any less genuine than in an environment bounded by a school affiliation (Facebook) or no affilation (MySpace) or any other affiliation (Tribe, Gather&#8230;). I&#8217;ve made real friends in all my careers, and also made acquaintances with whom I hang out only while I&#8217;m in that field.
</p>
<p>
One failure as a social network &#8212; speaking only from my own experience &#8212; is LinkedIn.  It&#8217;s a handy service and I use it regularly, but it seems to only be a resource, a space, rather than an online place where I&#8217;d go to connect with folks in a more meaningful way.
</p>
<p>
This all lends pressure to the question about what defines an online community. Michael Gilbert of the Center for the Digital Future and I have a running debate about whether dating sites count as online communities. He thinks they don&#8217;t. I think they do.  Just because somebody joins a community with an agenda and with only a transient commitment to the community, as in many dating sites, that doesn&#8217;t, to my way of thinking, make the community any less a community.  We certainly tend to think of our schools as communities, but we&#8217;re only in those for a short time and with a clear agenda.
</p>
<p>
More generally still, I think that it IS worthwhile to, as Ms. Boyd has done in her initial post, take seriously the needs and opinions of traditional social scientists. The commercially available internet is still relatively new, and so being able to communicate productively with traditional social science seems worthwhile, particularly if we want to advocate for the internet within those communities.
</p>
<p>
All best,
</p>
<p>
Brad Berens, Ph.D.<br />
Exec Editor<br />
iMedia Communications<br />
<a href="http://www.imediaconnection.com" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.imediaconnection.com?referer=');">http://www.imediaconnection.com</a><br />
&#038; now blogging at<br />
<a href="http://www.mediavorous.com" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.mediavorous.com?referer=');">http://www.mediavorous.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Joerissen</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html/comment-page-1#comment-14317</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Joerissen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Sep 2006 13:23:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/09/18/the_term_social.html#comment-14317</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with Anne. Networking is what these sites are about by means of their structure (data and interface structure). Calling them Social Network Sites makes not much difference to classical forms of online communities (without FOAF-options). This way you could loose just the notion you need to describe this difference. IMHO it&#039;s the FOAF-principle which reduces contingency (e.g. to have no clue about who the other is) and the problem of trust in online communities.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with Anne. Networking is what these sites are about by means of their structure (data and interface structure). Calling them Social Network Sites makes not much difference to classical forms of online communities (without FOAF-options). This way you could loose just the notion you need to describe this difference. IMHO it&#8217;s the FOAF-principle which reduces contingency (e.g. to have no clue about who the other is) and the problem of trust in online communities.</p>
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