Comments on: why i oppose HR 4437 http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html making connections where none previously existed Mon, 06 Feb 2012 07:10:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Lana http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13306 Lana Thu, 20 Jul 2006 11:27:30 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13306 Kried, i am not saying i agree with this act, nor am i saying i do not. you have ignored my question about what to do with rappiest and criminals who do not face the chargers but run back to where they came from? is that fair? yes, i do agree with you that H.R 4437 may not be the answer, but what else is there to act upon? America has been trying to force immigrants out for ages, it didnt work then, i doubt its going to work now. Kried, i am not saying i agree with this act, nor am i saying i do not. you have ignored my question about what to do with rappiest and criminals who do not face the chargers but run back to where they came from? is that fair? yes, i do agree with you that H.R 4437 may not be the answer, but what else is there to act upon? America has been trying to force immigrants out for ages, it didnt work then, i doubt its going to work now.

]]> By: ES http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13305 ES Thu, 11 May 2006 04:32:34 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13305 I think it's a load of bullshit that the government wants to pass a law that will get rid of people looking for a better life and would require the people helping them or coming in contact with them to snitch on them. I think there should be SOME kind of control as to who comes into the country and when, but not to a level where the US is some kind of frickin fortress. Shit, the people INSIDE will feel like hopping the fence to get out of the US. Me and my parents came here from Mexico almost 17 years ago. I was 8 months old at the time. I didn't even know how to walk. My mom carried me in her arms the whole time. Thank God there were no red-neck minutemen back then, my ass would've been blasted back to Puebla. Anyways, we applied for our legal documents as soon as we got in. We've spent thousands on lawyers and other shit, but we're still not legal. I'm 17, and can't even get a my frickin license cause Dubya says that I'm a "threat to the American way of life". So I guess you could say that I'm not from anywhere. I'm not from Mexico cause I don't know what it's like, and I'm not from here cause I wasn't born here and don't have my documents. What's my point? This whole hr 4437 is bullshit, and there should be an ammnesty for those living here for a lonf time. I like it here and wouldn't like to be anywhere else. Plus, i love them white girls. :) I think it’s a load of bullshit that the government wants to pass a law that will get rid of people looking for a better life and would require the people helping them or coming in contact with them to snitch on them. I think there should be SOME kind of control as to who comes into the country and when, but not to a level where the US is some kind of frickin fortress. Shit, the people INSIDE will feel like hopping the fence to get out of the US. Me and my parents came here from Mexico almost 17 years ago. I was 8 months old at the time. I didn’t even know how to walk. My mom carried me in her arms the whole time. Thank God there were no red-neck minutemen back then, my ass would’ve been blasted back to Puebla. Anyways, we applied for our legal documents as soon as we got in. We’ve spent thousands on lawyers and other shit, but we’re still not legal. I’m 17, and can’t even get a my frickin license cause Dubya says that I’m a “threat to the American way of life”. So I guess you could say that I’m not from anywhere. I’m not from Mexico cause I don’t know what it’s like, and I’m not from here cause I wasn’t born here and don’t have my documents. What’s my point? This whole hr 4437 is bullshit, and there should be an ammnesty for those living here for a lonf time. I like it here and wouldn’t like to be anywhere else. Plus, i love them white girls. :)

]]> By: maria http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13304 maria Tue, 09 May 2006 09:54:43 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13304 illegal immigration is not a crime. They shouldn't be treating us like illegal criminals. We come into this country to succeed here. We work harder than everybody. We do the work that no citizen will ever do. The sad part is that we are not protected by law:no social security number, no visa, no protection. illegal immigration is not a crime. They shouldn’t be treating us like illegal criminals. We come into this country to succeed here. We work harder than everybody. We do the work that no citizen will ever do. The sad part is that we are not protected by law:no social security number, no visa, no protection.

]]> By: baffomet http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13303 baffomet Wed, 03 May 2006 15:27:46 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13303 To the person who commented that the U.S exploits a lot of poor nations, that is somewhat true, however, the main reason why a lot of these countries are poor is not because the U.S makes them poor. It's because their governments are corrupt. One of the elements of corruption is only following the rules that suit you. The U.S by no means is an angel either, but not following the law is a path towards even more corruption. BTW Japan is not a poor country. You might want to check your source there. Also there is a huge difference between Illegal and Legal immigrant. Comparing the two is just silly. These poor "Illegal" immigrants do face some extreme hardships in trying to cross(by land/sea)over here. They work these crappy jobs for low wages. The problem, however, is that they are doing it to themselves by being here illegally. It's a double edge sword because by not going through the proper channels, they are reducing themselves to this treatment because other people know they can exploit them since they have no "civil" rights. It would be nice if the world cared about everyone, respected everyone as a human being, but that's not the case nor it never will be. If they were here legally then they could make a stand for their civil rights just as many other people did. The other fact that they are just trying to make a living is a very noble cause. They want what everyone wants, to live a decent life and provide a better life for their children. Once again though, the problem is that they are doing it "illegally" by stealing, forging,(Identify Theft, Fake SS#, etc...) and other unlawful acts to do so. Is it okay to do "Illegal" acts so long as its for a noble cause? Do the ends justify the means?? Just as a side note. For the past 5 years I have volunteered in TaxAid and VITA (Volunteer Income Tax Assistance)at the local communities where I live (26th & Mission). We provided free income tax preparation for the low wage income earners and seniors. I have seen and prepared MANY tax returns for illegal people (Since many of them heard that they are going to get money back from the government) and have noticed a few things: 1) They usually claim the maximum amount of exemptions to not get taxed on their income 2) They obviously don't make a lot of money. So what is my point? Those people who say they pay taxes is INcorrect. For the ones who don't get paid cash/under the table, they rarely ever pay taxes on their income. If they don't earn a lot of money or send money back to their home country, how is a sales tax an effective way for them to pay taxes?? The sales tax that they pay definitely doesn't pay the costs of them being here. I don't think that deporting all those millions of people is a solution either. Having the guest worker program would be my only solution if it can enforced. The problem is who is to say that it would actually work. After their time is up, does anyone really think that they will just pack up their things and go back to their country??? There are many people who come over with other visas who overstay. With a Guest worker program, it would be easier to get in and stick around. I truly sympathize with a lot of the illegal people here in terms of the hardship and services they provide. I have worked with and have made many of friends that were illegal immigrants in my lifetime, however, I don't agree that they should be allowed a free pass to become a citizen. The bill is very harsh and I hate to see anyone get exploited like that, but there are many more people who went through their own hardships to go through the process the legal way. It would be insulting to all of those people who did it the right way (Which includes my family). Granting citizenships for people who intentionally broke the law isn't right and would only increase that type of behavior since there are no consequences for their actions. Don't you think that people should be accountable for their actions? While I agree that the U.S visa system isn't what most people would call fair(insert sarcasm), that doesn't give a person the right to break the law because it doesn't suit them. Some Other Notes: Taken from the San Francisco Chronicle: As of today, 61% of the US wants illegal immigration to be considered a crime. For those who haven't read the bill, Google: Wiki HR4437 for complete details. End of rant 1.0 To the person who commented that the U.S exploits a lot of poor nations, that is somewhat true, however, the main reason why a lot of these countries are poor is not because the U.S makes them poor. It’s because their governments are corrupt. One of the elements of corruption is only following the rules that suit you. The U.S by no means is an angel either, but not following the law is a path towards even more corruption. BTW Japan is not a poor country. You might want to check your source there. Also there is a huge difference between Illegal and Legal immigrant. Comparing the two is just silly.

These poor “Illegal” immigrants do face some extreme hardships in trying to cross(by land/sea)over here. They work these crappy jobs for low wages. The problem, however, is that they are doing it to themselves by being here illegally. It’s a double edge sword because by not going through the proper channels, they are reducing themselves to this treatment because other people know they can exploit them since they have no “civil” rights. It would be nice if the world cared about everyone, respected everyone as a human being, but that’s not the case nor it never will be. If they were here legally then they could make a stand for their civil rights just as many other people did.

The other fact that they are just trying to make a living is a very noble cause. They want what everyone wants, to live a decent life and provide a better life for their children. Once again though, the problem is that they are doing it “illegally” by stealing, forging,(Identify Theft, Fake SS#, etc…) and other unlawful acts to do so. Is it okay to do “Illegal” acts so long as its for a noble cause? Do the ends justify the means??

Just as a side note. For the past 5 years I have volunteered in TaxAid and VITA (Volunteer Income Tax Assistance)at the local communities where I live (26th & Mission). We provided free income tax preparation for the low wage income earners and seniors. I have seen and prepared MANY tax returns for illegal people (Since many of them heard that they are going to get money back from the government) and have noticed a few things: 1) They usually claim the maximum amount of exemptions to not get taxed on their income 2) They obviously don’t make a lot of money. So what is my point? Those people who say they pay taxes is INcorrect. For the ones who don’t get paid cash/under the table, they rarely ever pay taxes on their income. If they don’t earn a lot of money or send money back to their home country, how is a sales tax an effective way for them to pay taxes?? The sales tax that they pay definitely doesn’t pay the costs of them being here.

I don’t think that deporting all those millions of people is a solution either. Having the guest worker program would be my only solution if it can enforced. The problem is who is to say that it would actually work. After their time is up, does anyone really think that they will just pack up their things and go back to their country??? There are many people who come over with other visas who overstay. With a Guest worker program, it would be easier to get in and stick around.

I truly sympathize with a lot of the illegal people here in terms of the hardship and services they provide. I have worked with and have made many of friends that were illegal immigrants in my lifetime, however, I don’t agree that they should be allowed a free pass to become a citizen. The bill is very harsh and I hate to see anyone get exploited like that, but there are many more people who went through their own hardships to go through the process the legal way. It would be insulting to all of those people who did it the right way (Which includes my family). Granting citizenships for people who intentionally broke the law isn’t right and would only increase that type of behavior since there are no consequences for their actions. Don’t you think that people should be accountable for their actions? While I agree that the U.S visa system isn’t what most people would call fair(insert sarcasm), that doesn’t give a person the right to break the law because it doesn’t suit them.

Some Other Notes:

Taken from the San Francisco Chronicle: As of today, 61% of the US wants illegal immigration to be considered a crime.

For those who haven’t read the bill, Google: Wiki HR4437 for complete details.

End of rant 1.0

]]> By: araseli http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13302 araseli Tue, 02 May 2006 12:02:27 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13302 i think that the person above me is correct, its true, americans dont want to pick tomatoes and stuff like that, if we get all the white ppl to do that they are going to want benefits, and will want to get payed a lot more than what the mexican satisfies with, its true, all the unclaimed money from the income taxes that the meixcans make are going to the social security and keep yall's grandparents recieving their social security money... if it wasnt for the money that the government gives to the social security, then i know yalls grandparents wouldnt be cruisin in then brand new cars and living in them big houses near the lakes!...lol i think that the person above me is correct, its true, americans dont want to pick tomatoes and stuff like that, if we get all the white ppl to do that they are going to want benefits, and will want to get payed a lot more than what the mexican satisfies with, its true, all the unclaimed money from the income taxes that the meixcans make are going to the social security and keep yall’s grandparents recieving their social security money… if it wasnt for the money that the government gives to the social security, then i know yalls grandparents wouldnt be cruisin in then brand new cars and living in them big houses near the lakes!…lol

]]> By: Alonso http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13301 Alonso Mon, 01 May 2006 21:09:12 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13301 Well, if you think about it carefully, they work with fake social security cards, therefore they pay taxes. That is a fact cause I know a lot of illegal immigrants. They actually pay more taxes than you and I cause they can't even claim them at the end of the year like you and I can. Those people that are working illegally are not only paying taxes but also doing the jobs that a lot of of people don't wanna do man. Think of it this way, if there are no immigrants to pick up Tomatoes or oranges which are tough jobs " I picked oranges once and only lasted 3 days" the ones called legal whose ancestors came to this country the same way they did will have to do that job, and that job is so fucking hard that they will not wanna do it for 8 bucks an hour, they'll wanna do it for probably 14 bucks an hour at least and tomatoes are gonna be so expensive. You think Gas prices have gone up? wait till you see that happens with those tomatoes man. Not only do they work hard descently but contibute to this country probably more than most American citizens man. Well, if you think about it carefully, they work with fake social security cards, therefore they pay taxes. That is a fact cause I know a lot of illegal immigrants. They actually pay more taxes than you and I cause they can’t even claim them at the end of the year like you and I can. Those people that are working illegally are not only paying taxes but also doing the jobs that a lot of of people don’t wanna do man. Think of it this way, if there are no immigrants to pick up Tomatoes or oranges which are tough jobs ” I picked oranges once and only lasted 3 days” the ones called legal whose ancestors came to this country the same way they did will have to do that job, and that job is so fucking hard that they will not wanna do it for 8 bucks an hour, they’ll wanna do it for probably 14 bucks an hour at least and tomatoes are gonna be so expensive. You think Gas prices have gone up? wait till you see that happens with those tomatoes man. Not only do they work hard descently but contibute to this country probably more than most American citizens man.

]]> By: Gabe Rodriguez http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13300 Gabe Rodriguez Mon, 01 May 2006 09:29:42 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13300 I highly disagree with this geddo bill. It makes no sence at all to make an immigrant illegal it just show how stupid yall are. I highly disagree with this geddo bill. It makes no sence at all to make an immigrant illegal it just show how stupid yall are.

]]> By: Bill Hunt http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13299 Bill Hunt Mon, 01 May 2006 09:03:29 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13299 I have to agree with another person that posted, I have no problem with immigrants as long as they are legal. But don't cry me a river over Illegal s that "sneak" into this country and expect all rights and benefits. I don't care if they have no homes in their country and their children are born here. These are the immigrants that prevent my child from getting a college grant/ loan, and a great job later in life. These are the "citizens" that expect signs, and instructions, and menus, and everything else to be printed in their countries language. They want to be here but don't want to learn the language, or live by the rules. I say good-bye and good riddins to bad rubbish! Call me ignorant call me mean, call me whatever you choice, I frankly don't care. I have buried family members that have fought for the rights of US citizens, both born here and that obtained their citizenship LEGALLY! I fully BACK and SUPPORT HR 4437 I have to agree with another person that posted, I have no problem with immigrants as long as they are legal. But don’t cry me a river over Illegal s that “sneak” into this country and expect all rights and benefits. I don’t care if they have no homes in their country and their children are born here. These are the immigrants that prevent my child from getting a college grant/ loan, and a great job later in life. These are the “citizens” that expect signs, and instructions, and menus, and everything else to be printed in their countries language. They want to be here but don’t want to learn the language, or live by the rules. I say good-bye and good riddins to bad rubbish! Call me ignorant call me mean, call me whatever you choice, I frankly don’t care. I have buried family members that have fought for the rights of US citizens, both born here and that obtained their citizenship LEGALLY! I fully BACK and SUPPORT HR 4437

]]> By: Fabiola http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13298 Fabiola Mon, 01 May 2006 09:00:59 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13298 People say that immigrants don't pay taxes, but as a matter of fact they do!!! Yes there may be criminal immigrants, but if we don't legalize them how would we be able to track them? Immigrants pay taxes the day they buy groceries, when they work, they may be payed with cash, but do you really know how many times they steal hours from their checks and are not able to protest against it. They pay taxes, contribute extremely to the economic. They have built most of the land. Immigrants are the new pioneers of America. The US for many years has tooken advantage of many countries. It makes other countries sell their goods at a cheap price that leaves countries almost unable to feed their own population. This creates great poverty in many countries. The US is a great contributer to the poverty that many countries has. So why do immigrants come to the US? They come to the US because their countries live in poverty due to the exploitment that the US creates in their country. According to "Social Problems" by James Henslin, """the most industrialized nations (US) import raw mateirals from poor nations and give them industrial products in return. Rich nations exploit the poor nations. Industrialized nations dominate the market for food and raw materials. The poor nations must sell their food and natural resources (from bananas to coffee tin) at prices so low that they are lucky to keep up with their expanding populations, as a result these nations remain poor.""" So now that I have presented this quote, we must realize that the US brings so much poverty to other countries that that's the reason why so many immigrants want to come to the US. The US carries the most goods than any other nation, why must this be? because it steals from the poor nations like Mexico, Salvador, China, Japan. Not only does the US get rich from exploiting other countries by getting their goods at a low price, but the US has the most sweatshops around the world. How does the US make it's Nike shoes, Walmart products, and reebok? Has it ever come to mind that these companies makes thousands and even millions of dollars because they go to other countries for cheap labor. The US doesn't want immigrants here because they take over space and jobs, but yet it's okay for big US corporations to go to other countries and take advantage of poor countries and exploit people there for cheap pay. So if anyone is or was against immigration, please really take a look at what the US does underground it's work then judge the reasons why so many immigrants are here in the US. The US has caused them to be here. Anyone who is not Native American is an immigrant. SacState University Student People say that immigrants don’t pay taxes, but as a matter of fact they do!!! Yes there may be criminal immigrants, but if we don’t legalize them how would we be able to track them? Immigrants pay taxes the day they buy groceries, when they work, they may be payed with cash, but do you really know how many times they steal hours from their checks and are not able to protest against it. They pay taxes, contribute extremely to the economic. They have built most of the land. Immigrants are the new pioneers of America. The US for many years has tooken advantage of many countries. It makes other countries sell their goods at a cheap price that leaves countries almost unable to feed their own population. This creates great poverty in many countries. The US is a great contributer to the poverty that many countries has. So why do immigrants come to the US? They come to the US because their countries live in poverty due to the exploitment that the US creates in their country. According to “Social Problems” by James Henslin, “”"the most industrialized nations (US) import raw mateirals from poor nations and give them industrial products in return. Rich nations exploit the poor nations. Industrialized nations dominate the market for food and raw materials. The poor nations must sell their food and natural resources (from bananas to coffee tin) at prices so low that they are lucky to keep up with their expanding populations, as a result these nations remain poor.”"” So now that I have presented this quote, we must realize that the US brings so much poverty to other countries that that’s the reason why so many immigrants want to come to the US. The US carries the most goods than any other nation, why must this be? because it steals from the poor nations like Mexico, Salvador, China, Japan.
Not only does the US get rich from exploiting other countries by getting their goods at a low price, but the US has the most sweatshops around the world. How does the US make it’s Nike shoes, Walmart products, and reebok? Has it ever come to mind that these companies makes thousands and even millions of dollars because they go to other countries for cheap labor. The US doesn’t want immigrants here because they take over space and jobs, but yet it’s okay for big US corporations to go to other countries and take advantage of poor countries and exploit people there for cheap pay.
So if anyone is or was against immigration, please really take a look at what the US does underground it’s work then judge the reasons why so many immigrants are here in the US. The US has caused them to be here.
Anyone who is not Native American is an immigrant.

SacState University Student

]]> By: jordan http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html/comment-page-1#comment-13297 jordan Sun, 30 Apr 2006 21:15:06 +0000 http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/04/02/why_i_oppose_hr.html#comment-13297 I totally concur with your views on the oppostion of HR 4437. Good commentary. I totally concur with your views on the oppostion of HR 4437. Good commentary.

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