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	<title>Comments on: sloppy speech acts</title>
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	<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html</link>
	<description>making connections where none previously existed</description>
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		<title>By: stefanos</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12472</link>
		<dc:creator>stefanos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jan 2006 18:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12472</guid>
		<description>expect them words to be short
as time is cut
and minds read doublespeak of the
phrases that emotively
become new languages upon
fingertipped tongues
search engineered predictive
austin hammering them words
to sculpt meaning somewhere
in collective moments at different
clocked speeds of reading thoughts
of perpetual &quot;I do&#039;s&quot;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>expect them words to be short<br />
as time is cut<br />
and minds read doublespeak of the<br />
phrases that emotively<br />
become new languages upon<br />
fingertipped tongues<br />
search engineered predictive<br />
austin hammering them words<br />
to sculpt meaning somewhere<br />
in collective moments at different<br />
clocked speeds of reading thoughts<br />
of perpetual &#8220;I do&#8217;s&#8221;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tigerblade</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12471</link>
		<dc:creator>Tigerblade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12471</guid>
		<description>What is lost in the shorthand is typically the emotion, the full meaning of what is being conveyed.  Instead of &quot;hello, how are you doing today?&quot; we&#039;ve allowed ourselves to get by with &quot;sup?&quot; - much less sophisticated by any measure.  We&#039;ve lost the extended meanings of our sentences, the details, the emotion.


And of course with any electronic communication channels, we lose the ever-important non-verbal signals.  Facial features, gestures, intonations (less so with phones, but still), etc... none of those come across, meaning it can be that much harder to determine what the original intent of the message was.  Sarcasm?  Irony?  Cynicism?  Wit?  Who knows.  All we see are the pixels on the screen.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is lost in the shorthand is typically the emotion, the full meaning of what is being conveyed.  Instead of &#8220;hello, how are you doing today?&#8221; we&#8217;ve allowed ourselves to get by with &#8220;sup?&#8221; &#8211; much less sophisticated by any measure.  We&#8217;ve lost the extended meanings of our sentences, the details, the emotion.</p>
<p>And of course with any electronic communication channels, we lose the ever-important non-verbal signals.  Facial features, gestures, intonations (less so with phones, but still), etc&#8230; none of those come across, meaning it can be that much harder to determine what the original intent of the message was.  Sarcasm?  Irony?  Cynicism?  Wit?  Who knows.  All we see are the pixels on the screen.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12470</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 17:58:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12470</guid>
		<description>But then what is lost in the shorthand?  What are the consequences of moving too fast?  I have to imagine there are some...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But then what is lost in the shorthand?  What are the consequences of moving too fast?  I have to imagine there are some&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tigerblade</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12469</link>
		<dc:creator>Tigerblade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jan 2006 13:27:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12469</guid>
		<description>Interesting thoughts.  I agree with Ged on this, that it&#039;s because of the medium that we&#039;ve adopted a strategy of shorthanding everything.  We are expected in virtual environments to have a more or less immediate response, so we resort to much faster means of &quot;communicating.&quot;  Time is at an all-time premium - the less time it takes us to do something, the better, right?  I&#039;ve noticed in my own online conversations that I tend to do as you mentioned - short bursts of thought separated by the all-powerful ellipsis.  It seems so much more convenient to do so than attempt to form full and proper sentences, even though it detracts from our overall... intelligence?  metabolization of thought?  I don&#039;t have a Blackberry or any other such device, but I do occasionally send a quick text message from my cellphone.  It takes determined thought to not type &#039;i dunno-u?&#039; in place of &#039;I don&#039;t know - what about you?&#039;


Interesting post.  If you&#039;re curious, I found your site through JeffHester.net... I&#039;ll be linking your site from mine if you don&#039;t mind.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thoughts.  I agree with Ged on this, that it&#8217;s because of the medium that we&#8217;ve adopted a strategy of shorthanding everything.  We are expected in virtual environments to have a more or less immediate response, so we resort to much faster means of &#8220;communicating.&#8221;  Time is at an all-time premium &#8211; the less time it takes us to do something, the better, right?  I&#8217;ve noticed in my own online conversations that I tend to do as you mentioned &#8211; short bursts of thought separated by the all-powerful ellipsis.  It seems so much more convenient to do so than attempt to form full and proper sentences, even though it detracts from our overall&#8230; intelligence?  metabolization of thought?  I don&#8217;t have a Blackberry or any other such device, but I do occasionally send a quick text message from my cellphone.  It takes determined thought to not type &#8216;i dunno-u?&#8217; in place of &#8216;I don&#8217;t know &#8211; what about you?&#8217;</p>
<p>Interesting post.  If you&#8217;re curious, I found your site through JeffHester.net&#8230; I&#8217;ll be linking your site from mine if you don&#8217;t mind.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Uno de Waal</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12468</link>
		<dc:creator>Uno de Waal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2006 01:03:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12468</guid>
		<description>The short-hand language phenomenon has been running through my mind as well for the past year or so. My main &quot;other&quot; (apart from PC or other communication) is probably sms&#039;ing. I have a P910i which has the keyboard and I regularly get comments on how i always have properly puncuated SMS&#039;s, but I still feel and see how my language becomes watered down (eek! Are we already trying to say it&#039;s a negative thing?).
Often, mostly in IM conversations, I&#039;ve found myself ditching the Subject. It no longer is &quot;I am going to make a sandwhich, see you soon.&quot; The sentence becomes &quot;Gona make a sandwich.&quot; All actions that I refer to lose the original action.
Another thing bothering me is the possibility of working out emotion and adjectives. How many times have you tried to convey your real emotion over an SMS? It reminds me of Orwell and New Speak to some extent. Sheez, at the same time though, I am quite excited because for me I can definately see more communication happening, i.e. more people are talking to each other, but I&#039;m still a bit skeptical about the quality of the communication.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The short-hand language phenomenon has been running through my mind as well for the past year or so. My main &#8220;other&#8221; (apart from PC or other communication) is probably sms&#8217;ing. I have a P910i which has the keyboard and I regularly get comments on how i always have properly puncuated SMS&#8217;s, but I still feel and see how my language becomes watered down (eek! Are we already trying to say it&#8217;s a negative thing?).<br />
Often, mostly in IM conversations, I&#8217;ve found myself ditching the Subject. It no longer is &#8220;I am going to make a sandwhich, see you soon.&#8221; The sentence becomes &#8220;Gona make a sandwich.&#8221; All actions that I refer to lose the original action.<br />
Another thing bothering me is the possibility of working out emotion and adjectives. How many times have you tried to convey your real emotion over an SMS? It reminds me of Orwell and New Speak to some extent. Sheez, at the same time though, I am quite excited because for me I can definately see more communication happening, i.e. more people are talking to each other, but I&#8217;m still a bit skeptical about the quality of the communication.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Ged Carroll</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12467</link>
		<dc:creator>Ged Carroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jan 2006 14:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12467</guid>
		<description>danah,


Interesting post which touches on a number of areas. It reminds of research I read about that was done back in the day on school and university students writing had been changed by the tools that they used. When they had a pen and pad or a typewriter the writing was more structured, but was not as creative as the work done by students using word processing software. Technology like email and IM, by their immediate nature encourage us to develop an immediate response (hence the speed and sloppiness as you call it). Also if you wrote long-winded prose you would probably end up with  &#039;Blackberry thumb&#039;.


Bottom line is that we are both influencers and influenced by our environments. Keep on blogging /Ged
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>danah,</p>
<p>Interesting post which touches on a number of areas. It reminds of research I read about that was done back in the day on school and university students writing had been changed by the tools that they used. When they had a pen and pad or a typewriter the writing was more structured, but was not as creative as the work done by students using word processing software. Technology like email and IM, by their immediate nature encourage us to develop an immediate response (hence the speed and sloppiness as you call it). Also if you wrote long-winded prose you would probably end up with  &#8216;Blackberry thumb&#8217;.</p>
<p>Bottom line is that we are both influencers and influenced by our environments. Keep on blogging /Ged</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12466</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2006 11:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12466</guid>
		<description>As an undergrad, I had a prof that would say &quot;writing clearly is thinking clearly,&quot; as she would fill us to the brim with Strunk and White, and discussions about &quot;professional language communities&quot; and techno-jargon.


While I&#039;m not sure that IM qualifies as a professional community, shorthand does reflect a culture of sorts. I suppose the problem Dana writes about could be a form of &quot;dual consciousness&quot; (apologies to Du Bois).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an undergrad, I had a prof that would say &#8220;writing clearly is thinking clearly,&#8221; as she would fill us to the brim with Strunk and White, and discussions about &#8220;professional language communities&#8221; and techno-jargon.</p>
<p>While I&#8217;m not sure that IM qualifies as a professional community, shorthand does reflect a culture of sorts. I suppose the problem Dana writes about could be a form of &#8220;dual consciousness&#8221; (apologies to Du Bois).</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: zala</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12465</link>
		<dc:creator>zala</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jan 2006 05:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12465</guid>
		<description>I have been through the same thing a few times, and crawled out of it eventually.  I love how you described your students&#039; writing as them not having learned to write proper. I felt the same way.


I feel it is like learning a new dialect, where your brain automatically maps out the language. And then eventually you start thinking in that dialect.


The main problem for me was that it has a much reduced vocabulary and grammar structure, so expressing complex ideas follows a torturous, circuitous path. And often word would fail me because I didnt have the vocab. :(


Eventually I adopted a philosophy of only interacting using &#039;proper&#039; english, (which ruled out most IM and simple email) and I haven&#039;t backtracked yet over the last 2 years.




</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been through the same thing a few times, and crawled out of it eventually.  I love how you described your students&#8217; writing as them not having learned to write proper. I felt the same way.</p>
<p>I feel it is like learning a new dialect, where your brain automatically maps out the language. And then eventually you start thinking in that dialect.</p>
<p>The main problem for me was that it has a much reduced vocabulary and grammar structure, so expressing complex ideas follows a torturous, circuitous path. And often word would fail me because I didnt have the vocab. <img src='http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Eventually I adopted a philosophy of only interacting using &#8216;proper&#8217; english, (which ruled out most IM and simple email) and I haven&#8217;t backtracked yet over the last 2 years.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12464</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12464</guid>
		<description>i would definitely say that i&#039;m at overload but i don&#039;t know if it&#039;s just IM...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i would definitely say that i&#8217;m at overload but i don&#8217;t know if it&#8217;s just IM&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Silona</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html/comment-page-1#comment-12463</link>
		<dc:creator>Silona</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2006/01/16/sloppy_speech_a.html#comment-12463</guid>
		<description>Wow I can so relate to this.  Interface and context are so crucial.


I have taken to using IM over phone conversations because then I have a record of what is said so that I can reread for missed details.


But I am always amazed at what people thought they read...  copy and paste becomes my friend sometimes.


Other times when I am wrong -it is a way for me to apologize and explain my misconceptions -- hopefully leading me on a path of fewer miscommunications in the future.


I have also started blogging on LJ about significant personal issues (all friends only of course.)  Because of the format and the ability to take time and do careful wording, I find it to be an ideal way to talk about sensitive issues in a way I normally would find difficult in RL.  Simple body language and interruptions are too difficult to deal with when it is a sensative issue and I also know that when people are reading it - it is because they choose to.  They are not simply being polite.  So I like the pull format ;-)


It is also very useful to have the comment section where I can hopefully explain any difficulties or misconceptions about what I have written.


thanks for the thought process!


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow I can so relate to this.  Interface and context are so crucial.</p>
<p>I have taken to using IM over phone conversations because then I have a record of what is said so that I can reread for missed details.</p>
<p>But I am always amazed at what people thought they read&#8230;  copy and paste becomes my friend sometimes.</p>
<p>Other times when I am wrong -it is a way for me to apologize and explain my misconceptions &#8212; hopefully leading me on a path of fewer miscommunications in the future.</p>
<p>I have also started blogging on LJ about significant personal issues (all friends only of course.)  Because of the format and the ability to take time and do careful wording, I find it to be an ideal way to talk about sensitive issues in a way I normally would find difficult in RL.  Simple body language and interruptions are too difficult to deal with when it is a sensative issue and I also know that when people are reading it &#8211; it is because they choose to.  They are not simply being polite.  So I like the pull format <img src='http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>It is also very useful to have the comment section where I can hopefully explain any difficulties or misconceptions about what I have written.</p>
<p>thanks for the thought process!</p>
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