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	<title>Comments on: Perpetuating Intolerance: Microsoft and LGBTQ issues</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html</link>
	<description>making connections where none previously existed</description>
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		<title>By: museumfreak</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html/comment-page-1#comment-8648</link>
		<dc:creator>museumfreak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 May 2005 09:10:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html#comment-8648</guid>
		<description>I have comments on this, but my head is about to explode with the no computer thing.  Plus they&#039;re sort of not-for-google consumption anyway.  So I will have to remember to e-mail you.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have comments on this, but my head is about to explode with the no computer thing.  Plus they&#8217;re sort of not-for-google consumption anyway.  So I will have to remember to e-mail you.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html/comment-page-1#comment-8647</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2005 07:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html#comment-8647</guid>
		<description>Sometimes little girls walk past me and say &quot;boys can have long hair too!&quot; to their mothers. Most of my friends have experienced something similar. I personally think that lil&#039; girls are trying out thier correct gender behaviours that have been studiously taught to them by thier mothers.. but thats just an un-informed opinion.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes little girls walk past me and say &#8220;boys can have long hair too!&#8221; to their mothers. Most of my friends have experienced something similar. I personally think that lil&#8217; girls are trying out thier correct gender behaviours that have been studiously taught to them by thier mothers.. but thats just an un-informed opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html/comment-page-1#comment-8646</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 May 2005 07:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html#comment-8646</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m seeing an enormous amount of pressure to fit in with the dominant religious groups in companies.  Preference of some religious holidays over others, prayers (!) to a christian god in internal corporate events - things like that.  Of course the dominant religion is anything but queer friendly.


A young friend has taken to wearing horns in protest.  Some people in San Francisco heard about this and someone made her a very nice set of horns (which she is wearing) ... it is her reaction to chrome fish and W stickers on cars.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;


She just wants people to know...
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m seeing an enormous amount of pressure to fit in with the dominant religious groups in companies.  Preference of some religious holidays over others, prayers (!) to a christian god in internal corporate events &#8211; things like that.  Of course the dominant religion is anything but queer friendly.</p>
<p>A young friend has taken to wearing horns in protest.  Some people in San Francisco heard about this and someone made her a very nice set of horns (which she is wearing) &#8230; it is her reaction to chrome fish and W stickers on cars.</p>
<p><a href="http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html?referer=');"></a><a href="http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html?referer=');">http://tingilinde.typepad.com/starstuff/2005/05/robyn_wears_her.html</a></p>
<p>She just wants people to know&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Melanie</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html/comment-page-1#comment-8645</link>
		<dc:creator>Melanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 09:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html#comment-8645</guid>
		<description>&quot;Most obviously, take a look at photos on people&#039;s desks, who they bring to company events, who they talk about going home to.&quot;


This is the intersection of privilege and discrimination.


I recently quit job because the environment, however &quot;normal&quot; for the other people there, was incredibly toxic. A place where every joke and conversation begins with presumed prejudices (social, economic, sexual, racial and otherwise) and conspiratorial winks and smiles. On the sexual side there&#039;s the constant talk of husbands/wives/kids. Even though my partner is male they assume I&#039;m not in a serious relationship because we&#039;re neither engaged or married. In order to assess our seriousness they often ask &quot;are you going to have kids&quot; (an INCREDIBLY personal question that they have no business even asking but is perfectly NORMAL...). It&#039;s not until I say &quot;yeah, we&#039;d like to have *a* kid at some point&quot; that they know we are &quot;serious&quot;. I find this whole scenario revolting because it measures my love and respect for my partner according to a bunch of centrist default settings. Now imagine if I told them I had a girlfriend. How do they establish how &quot;serious&quot; we are without the standard heterosexist benchmarks (i.e., engagement, marriage, breeding).


You can&#039;t simply opt-out of these conversations. Most of the people in these environments don&#039;t seem to have very sophisticated boundaries - it&#039;s normal to barge into somebody else&#039;s space and ask certain kinds of questions &quot;so what does your husband do?&quot; Questions that are loaded with presumption. This is centrist culture and it&#039;s corporate culture. What happened to danah at the airport is part of that. Corporate culture is intimately connected with centrist/consumer ideology. They reinforce and compliment each other.


Unlike universities or cultural occupations, corporate culture rewards centrist social and cultural identities/values. If you don&#039;t have a paint-by-numbers, made-for-TV life you&#039;re a freak. It&#039;s a little easier for centrist gays and lesbians to *fit in* to this kind of atmosphere but it&#039;s still all about conformit. You&#039;re A-OK-GAY if you&#039;re otherwise the same as they are. That&#039;s not any kind of equality as far as I&#039;m concerned - that&#039;s assimilation.


Corporate culture has got to change. The whole script. All of it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Most obviously, take a look at photos on people&#8217;s desks, who they bring to company events, who they talk about going home to.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is the intersection of privilege and discrimination.</p>
<p>I recently quit job because the environment, however &#8220;normal&#8221; for the other people there, was incredibly toxic. A place where every joke and conversation begins with presumed prejudices (social, economic, sexual, racial and otherwise) and conspiratorial winks and smiles. On the sexual side there&#8217;s the constant talk of husbands/wives/kids. Even though my partner is male they assume I&#8217;m not in a serious relationship because we&#8217;re neither engaged or married. In order to assess our seriousness they often ask &#8220;are you going to have kids&#8221; (an INCREDIBLY personal question that they have no business even asking but is perfectly NORMAL&#8230;). It&#8217;s not until I say &#8220;yeah, we&#8217;d like to have *a* kid at some point&#8221; that they know we are &#8220;serious&#8221;. I find this whole scenario revolting because it measures my love and respect for my partner according to a bunch of centrist default settings. Now imagine if I told them I had a girlfriend. How do they establish how &#8220;serious&#8221; we are without the standard heterosexist benchmarks (i.e., engagement, marriage, breeding).</p>
<p>You can&#8217;t simply opt-out of these conversations. Most of the people in these environments don&#8217;t seem to have very sophisticated boundaries &#8211; it&#8217;s normal to barge into somebody else&#8217;s space and ask certain kinds of questions &#8220;so what does your husband do?&#8221; Questions that are loaded with presumption. This is centrist culture and it&#8217;s corporate culture. What happened to danah at the airport is part of that. Corporate culture is intimately connected with centrist/consumer ideology. They reinforce and compliment each other.</p>
<p>Unlike universities or cultural occupations, corporate culture rewards centrist social and cultural identities/values. If you don&#8217;t have a paint-by-numbers, made-for-TV life you&#8217;re a freak. It&#8217;s a little easier for centrist gays and lesbians to *fit in* to this kind of atmosphere but it&#8217;s still all about conformit. You&#8217;re A-OK-GAY if you&#8217;re otherwise the same as they are. That&#8217;s not any kind of equality as far as I&#8217;m concerned &#8211; that&#8217;s assimilation.</p>
<p>Corporate culture has got to change. The whole script. All of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html/comment-page-1#comment-8644</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2005 22:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2005/05/09/perpetuating_intolerance_microsoft_and_lgbtq_issues.html#comment-8644</guid>
		<description>Well said!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said!</p>
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