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	<title>Comments on: on being shunned by libraries</title>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7381</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 21:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Applicable Flash social Commentary!</p>
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		<title>By: todd x</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7380</link>
		<dc:creator>todd x</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 12:34:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7380</guid>
		<description>i am not that far removed from school that the pain and anxiety of finding the books and other hard copy text materials checked out, lost, or worse defaced still haunts me.  Finding such non plusses on visits to various libraries to be the standard instead of the exception breeds apathy.  Getting students to understand the importance of good research is a daunting task in the face of such a problem.  Still it is not out of the realm of possibility.


One way is to connect with students on a subject they like.  Sure the class they might be taking may only be for fullfilling some college requirement, but a good educator will find a way to divine the interconnectedness of all things to inspire a student to learn.


This will likely take something that is not very popular, time and extra work.


The most difficult class i have ever taken was Quantitative Research Methodologies.  A required class that forced me to assign a number to the most absract subjects.  It also forced me to reaccess my views on these abstract subjects.  In the end the class made me a better researcher even though i fought it up until the research started to show results that i would not have arrived at were it not for the attempted quantification of the seemingly unquantifiable.


Learning how to use research materials be they found in the stacks or out in cyberspace needs one  element, the ability to discern the rough from the smooch.  Students need to be first taught how to identify crap research -- building blocks.


and just a comment on the difference between research online and inthe library.  writing a paper in a pinch students are better able to find the quotes that fit into their papers, (and in some cases plagerize), than they are in a book.  The world does seem to move faster with the emergence of technologies that put information at your finger tips.  Thus the subtle nuances of a book should also be brought to a students attention.  One great way to accomplish this is write a script for a documentary based on one short book.




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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am not that far removed from school that the pain and anxiety of finding the books and other hard copy text materials checked out, lost, or worse defaced still haunts me.  Finding such non plusses on visits to various libraries to be the standard instead of the exception breeds apathy.  Getting students to understand the importance of good research is a daunting task in the face of such a problem.  Still it is not out of the realm of possibility.</p>
<p>One way is to connect with students on a subject they like.  Sure the class they might be taking may only be for fullfilling some college requirement, but a good educator will find a way to divine the interconnectedness of all things to inspire a student to learn.</p>
<p>This will likely take something that is not very popular, time and extra work.</p>
<p>The most difficult class i have ever taken was Quantitative Research Methodologies.  A required class that forced me to assign a number to the most absract subjects.  It also forced me to reaccess my views on these abstract subjects.  In the end the class made me a better researcher even though i fought it up until the research started to show results that i would not have arrived at were it not for the attempted quantification of the seemingly unquantifiable.</p>
<p>Learning how to use research materials be they found in the stacks or out in cyberspace needs one  element, the ability to discern the rough from the smooch.  Students need to be first taught how to identify crap research &#8212; building blocks.</p>
<p>and just a comment on the difference between research online and inthe library.  writing a paper in a pinch students are better able to find the quotes that fit into their papers, (and in some cases plagerize), than they are in a book.  The world does seem to move faster with the emergence of technologies that put information at your finger tips.  Thus the subtle nuances of a book should also be brought to a students attention.  One great way to accomplish this is write a script for a documentary based on one short book.</p>
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		<title>By: Caveat Lector</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7382</link>
		<dc:creator>Caveat Lector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7382</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;On library love&#8212;and hate&lt;/strong&gt;

My pal Kevin pointed me to this post from danah boyd in which she explains why she doesn&#039;t patronize the library buildings in her vicinity.
I use the word &quot;buildings&quot; advisedly, of course, because as any academic must, danah uses library services...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>On library love&#8212;and hate</strong></p>
<p>My pal Kevin pointed me to this post from danah boyd in which she explains why she doesn&#8217;t patronize the library buildings in her vicinity.<br />
I use the word &#8220;buildings&#8221; advisedly, of course, because as any academic must, danah uses library services&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rayne</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7379</link>
		<dc:creator>Rayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7379</guid>
		<description>Came back after a perfect example of context/content manipulation in research.  A friend sent me links to quotes by Plato and Burke.  One of the sites would have delivered Gator had not my anti-spyware caught it; the other site looked legit, but the format of the content left me wondering if I was reading everything that was intended for me.  Hope my kids will be as skeptical about this kind of content -- and that they&#039;d appreciate books for not spamming their research bandwidth.  Wonder, too, what Google will do to the concept of library, in spite of their stated intent not to be evil; I don&#039;t think we&#039;ve really thought it all out, what exactly it is that libraries should be besides text in some format.  It shouldn&#039;t be something we dread.  It should be something we can trust, yes?
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Came back after a perfect example of context/content manipulation in research.  A friend sent me links to quotes by Plato and Burke.  One of the sites would have delivered Gator had not my anti-spyware caught it; the other site looked legit, but the format of the content left me wondering if I was reading everything that was intended for me.  Hope my kids will be as skeptical about this kind of content &#8212; and that they&#8217;d appreciate books for not spamming their research bandwidth.  Wonder, too, what Google will do to the concept of library, in spite of their stated intent not to be evil; I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;ve really thought it all out, what exactly it is that libraries should be besides text in some format.  It shouldn&#8217;t be something we dread.  It should be something we can trust, yes?</p>
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		<title>By: NotoriousRRZ</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7378</link>
		<dc:creator>NotoriousRRZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 21:21:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7378</guid>
		<description>Being allergic to dust, I really do not enjoy libraries, and I also loving being able to write in margins and keep books for as long as I want. However, I can attest to Berkeley&#039;s collection on Indian books (very useful for papers on Rushdie and Roy) and do enjoy the phenomenon of finding a useful book in a search on a library catalogue, then finding a bunch of useful ones right next to it.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Being allergic to dust, I really do not enjoy libraries, and I also loving being able to write in margins and keep books for as long as I want. However, I can attest to Berkeley&#8217;s collection on Indian books (very useful for papers on Rushdie and Roy) and do enjoy the phenomenon of finding a useful book in a search on a library catalogue, then finding a bunch of useful ones right next to it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jay Fienberg</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7377</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Fienberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 20:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7377</guid>
		<description>Part of my librarian job used to be going to the Berkeley (and other) libraries to grab info on books that the library I worked for might want to acquire (fyi, Berkeley has, perhaps, the best collection in the US of books from India).


I always found wandering the stacks at Berkeley to be at least as solitary and serendipitous as I now experience sitting in front of my computer and doing web searches, if not more so. I don&#039;t remember ever running into a librarian anywhere in the stacks--and I usually would have entire isles of books to myself.


At one time, I had about 100 books checked out from UCB, for about 18 months--once they allowed you to renew online (via telnet!), such a feat was quite convenient. (Though before, carrying boxes across campus to the library, just to have them renewed, was an awful experience.)


Anyway, I mention this just to contrast your own experience.


In terms of validity, the best thing about a library is when, within a couple shelve, one can see lots of points of view on the same subject. And, honestly, one can only do that in the very best libraries that specialize in particular subjects.


I would say, only in those special cases, are libraries better than online. And, I&#039;ve hardly met anyone who has traveled around the world just to visit these special libraries.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of my librarian job used to be going to the Berkeley (and other) libraries to grab info on books that the library I worked for might want to acquire (fyi, Berkeley has, perhaps, the best collection in the US of books from India).</p>
<p>I always found wandering the stacks at Berkeley to be at least as solitary and serendipitous as I now experience sitting in front of my computer and doing web searches, if not more so. I don&#8217;t remember ever running into a librarian anywhere in the stacks&#8211;and I usually would have entire isles of books to myself.</p>
<p>At one time, I had about 100 books checked out from UCB, for about 18 months&#8211;once they allowed you to renew online (via telnet!), such a feat was quite convenient. (Though before, carrying boxes across campus to the library, just to have them renewed, was an awful experience.)</p>
<p>Anyway, I mention this just to contrast your own experience.</p>
<p>In terms of validity, the best thing about a library is when, within a couple shelve, one can see lots of points of view on the same subject. And, honestly, one can only do that in the very best libraries that specialize in particular subjects.</p>
<p>I would say, only in those special cases, are libraries better than online. And, I&#8217;ve hardly met anyone who has traveled around the world just to visit these special libraries.</p>
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		<title>By: BV</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7376</link>
		<dc:creator>BV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 18:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7376</guid>
		<description>So sorry to hear that you had such bad experiences with libraries when you were young. For me, libraries were a refuge and a wonderful resource since my parents, although they were happy that I was reading, did not have the the pocketbook for my book obsession. I don&#039;t think I was ever censored for what I read by a librarian in school or out, and I wouldn&#039;t want my librarian to censor what I read.


The article that you point to certainly raises horror stories about students and young people who do not evaluate their sources. However, I do think it would be useful for students to be fully versed in both research online and offline. The least that a student can take away with them from high school or undergrad would be to know how to conduct research in the library and on the comptuer. I also echo Rayne&#039;s concerns about how information online could be filtered without our knowing it. This probably also happens in publishing houses in terms of what books get printed and distributed, but there is more of a sense of direct access to the information, which search engines could certainly play with without our ever knowing it. Of course, maybe I&#039;m turning too paranoid here, but I don&#039;t tend to trust corporations.


Also, aren&#039;t libraries heading towards more online media anyway? Book storage is expensive compared to what could be stored electronically, and I think I read an article about a librarian wondering about the future of libraries in Chronicles of Higher Education....
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So sorry to hear that you had such bad experiences with libraries when you were young. For me, libraries were a refuge and a wonderful resource since my parents, although they were happy that I was reading, did not have the the pocketbook for my book obsession. I don&#8217;t think I was ever censored for what I read by a librarian in school or out, and I wouldn&#8217;t want my librarian to censor what I read.</p>
<p>The article that you point to certainly raises horror stories about students and young people who do not evaluate their sources. However, I do think it would be useful for students to be fully versed in both research online and offline. The least that a student can take away with them from high school or undergrad would be to know how to conduct research in the library and on the comptuer. I also echo Rayne&#8217;s concerns about how information online could be filtered without our knowing it. This probably also happens in publishing houses in terms of what books get printed and distributed, but there is more of a sense of direct access to the information, which search engines could certainly play with without our ever knowing it. Of course, maybe I&#8217;m turning too paranoid here, but I don&#8217;t tend to trust corporations.</p>
<p>Also, aren&#8217;t libraries heading towards more online media anyway? Book storage is expensive compared to what could be stored electronically, and I think I read an article about a librarian wondering about the future of libraries in Chronicles of Higher Education&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: tonya</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7375</link>
		<dc:creator>tonya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 11:52:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7375</guid>
		<description>I was kicked out of a library in kindergarten for reading chapter books that were determined to be &quot;beyond my reading level.&quot;  I was afraid of libraries for many years and when forced to check out items from the school library, I rarely read the books I got.  I now am a fan of the public library, for my reading pleasure at least.  I do a lot of research online but not out of laziness.  I feel that I am fairly skilled at determining whether or not a source is credible.  Anyway, I stumbled across this blog after reading ani&#039;s lyrics and wanted to share my parallel thoughts.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was kicked out of a library in kindergarten for reading chapter books that were determined to be &#8220;beyond my reading level.&#8221;  I was afraid of libraries for many years and when forced to check out items from the school library, I rarely read the books I got.  I now am a fan of the public library, for my reading pleasure at least.  I do a lot of research online but not out of laziness.  I feel that I am fairly skilled at determining whether or not a source is credible.  Anyway, I stumbled across this blog after reading ani&#8217;s lyrics and wanted to share my parallel thoughts.</p>
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		<title>By: Meg</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7374</link>
		<dc:creator>Meg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7374</guid>
		<description>Danah...came across your blog after receiving endless links to Ani lyrics from a friend who came upon your site. I clicked around, and ended up here. I&#039;m really glad I did...you have some brilliant perspective. And Rayne, whose blog I always read, and whose election debate chats I was in on, comments here, too! Insane how small the &#039;net really is. Anyhow...I will read through your words here and glean what wisdom I can. Thanks for thinking.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Danah&#8230;came across your blog after receiving endless links to Ani lyrics from a friend who came upon your site. I clicked around, and ended up here. I&#8217;m really glad I did&#8230;you have some brilliant perspective. And Rayne, whose blog I always read, and whose election debate chats I was in on, comments here, too! Insane how small the &#8216;net really is. Anyhow&#8230;I will read through your words here and glean what wisdom I can. Thanks for thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: quinn</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html/comment-page-1#comment-7373</link>
		<dc:creator>quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2004 23:39:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/12/18/on_being_shunned_by_libraries.html#comment-7373</guid>
		<description>My *favorite* bit of online research is the unreliability. I have this argument regularly with librarians; even once with some of the librarians of congress. You put a book in a library and it becomes  even more authoritative than simply a printed book, but of course it&#039;s not actually signifigantly more likely to be right than a web page. My fond hope is that online research encourages kids to think critically about the information, try to figure out if it makes sense, fits in its context. If they take that skill back to the library, that would be fantastic and unpresidented.


When asked to describe the net, or more presisely the google end of the web, to a remote tribal people in zambia i explained that it was like you had a man sitting in the middle of your village, and you could ask him anything at all in the world. He would give you six answers to your question, and one or maybe two of them would be right. They saw a value in that, and i see one too. Even that wrong information, the stuff you&#039;ll discard due to contradiction or source problems, gives a bigger picture than just getting what you hope is the authoritative answer everytime.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My *favorite* bit of online research is the unreliability. I have this argument regularly with librarians; even once with some of the librarians of congress. You put a book in a library and it becomes  even more authoritative than simply a printed book, but of course it&#8217;s not actually signifigantly more likely to be right than a web page. My fond hope is that online research encourages kids to think critically about the information, try to figure out if it makes sense, fits in its context. If they take that skill back to the library, that would be fantastic and unpresidented.</p>
<p>When asked to describe the net, or more presisely the google end of the web, to a remote tribal people in zambia i explained that it was like you had a man sitting in the middle of your village, and you could ask him anything at all in the world. He would give you six answers to your question, and one or maybe two of them would be right. They saw a value in that, and i see one too. Even that wrong information, the stuff you&#8217;ll discard due to contradiction or source problems, gives a bigger picture than just getting what you hope is the authoritative answer everytime.</p>
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