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	<title>Comments on: revisiting Walmart and Starbucks Nation</title>
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		<title>By: HGP SHILOH HENDRICKS</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7032</link>
		<dc:creator>HGP SHILOH HENDRICKS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2005 10:21:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7032</guid>
		<description>I LOVE WAL-MART AND YOU WILL NEVER EPRICIATE IT LKE I DO
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I LOVE WAL-MART AND YOU WILL NEVER EPRICIATE IT LKE I DO</p>
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		<title>By: ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7031</link>
		<dc:creator>ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7031</guid>
		<description>I am doing a paper on how Starbucks ruins small community buisnesses in small cities.  Myself, I live in a city that has gone from having a poplulation of 5000 to a poplulation of 15,000.  This in just my eighteen years of existance.  With the bigger, better houses being built I find there is a 2 new grocery stores, (Albertsons and Safeway), a new video store (blockbuster) and seven coffee shops, (four of which being Starbucks).  These openings have cost a local grocery store, video store and a local coffee shop to go out of buisness.  It rotten and I want to do anything I can to stop such a thing.  What are my choice&#039;s?  To not drink coffee or eat food or even rent any movies?  What&#039;s left?  I was wondering if anyone could give me references to more information that could help this paper and to qualify my allready demeamor toward the &quot;in your face&quot; buisnesses?  Thank you,      Ashley                                                                                                       p.s. my email is ashley.turner@pcc.edu


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am doing a paper on how Starbucks ruins small community buisnesses in small cities.  Myself, I live in a city that has gone from having a poplulation of 5000 to a poplulation of 15,000.  This in just my eighteen years of existance.  With the bigger, better houses being built I find there is a 2 new grocery stores, (Albertsons and Safeway), a new video store (blockbuster) and seven coffee shops, (four of which being Starbucks).  These openings have cost a local grocery store, video store and a local coffee shop to go out of buisness.  It rotten and I want to do anything I can to stop such a thing.  What are my choice&#8217;s?  To not drink coffee or eat food or even rent any movies?  What&#8217;s left?  I was wondering if anyone could give me references to more information that could help this paper and to qualify my allready demeamor toward the &#8220;in your face&#8221; buisnesses?  Thank you,      Ashley                                                                                                       p.s. my email is <a href="mailto:ashley.turner@pcc.edu">ashley.turner@pcc.edu</a></p>
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		<title>By: ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7030</link>
		<dc:creator>ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7030</guid>
		<description>I am doing a paper on how Starbucks ruins small community buisnesses in small cities.  Myself, I live in a city that has gone from having a poplulation of 5000 to a poplulation of 15,000.  This in just my eighteen years of existance.  With the bigger, better houses being built I find there is a 2 new grocery stores, (Albertsons and Safeway), a new video store (blockbuster) and seven coffee shops, (four of which being Starbucks).  These openings have cost a local grocery store, video store and a local coffee shop to go out of buisness.  It rotten and I want to do anything I can to stop such a thing.  What are my chose&#039;s?  To not drink coffee or eat food or even rent any movies?  What&#039;s left?  I was wondering if anyone could give me references to more information that could help this paper and to qualify my allready demeamor toward the &quot;in your face&quot; buisnesses?  Thank you,      Ashley                                                                                                       p.s. my email is ashley.turner@pcc.edu


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am doing a paper on how Starbucks ruins small community buisnesses in small cities.  Myself, I live in a city that has gone from having a poplulation of 5000 to a poplulation of 15,000.  This in just my eighteen years of existance.  With the bigger, better houses being built I find there is a 2 new grocery stores, (Albertsons and Safeway), a new video store (blockbuster) and seven coffee shops, (four of which being Starbucks).  These openings have cost a local grocery store, video store and a local coffee shop to go out of buisness.  It rotten and I want to do anything I can to stop such a thing.  What are my chose&#8217;s?  To not drink coffee or eat food or even rent any movies?  What&#8217;s left?  I was wondering if anyone could give me references to more information that could help this paper and to qualify my allready demeamor toward the &#8220;in your face&#8221; buisnesses?  Thank you,      Ashley                                                                                                       p.s. my email is <a href="mailto:ashley.turner@pcc.edu">ashley.turner@pcc.edu</a></p>
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		<title>By: ALLABOUTGEORGE.com</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7033</link>
		<dc:creator>ALLABOUTGEORGE.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Nov 2004 06:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7033</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Noticed-pre-election backed-up aggregate.&lt;/strong&gt;

Which Depeche Mode album am I? By an ace, it&#039;s &quot;Music for the Masses&quot; over &quot;Violator&quot; (via writerpunk)Guardian UK&#039;s &quot;Outrage at guns for sterilisation policy&quot; (via Agonist), Strobe Talbott&#039;s &quot;Engaging India: Diplomacy, Democracy and the Bomb&quot; (via Amit...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Noticed-pre-election backed-up aggregate.</strong></p>
<p>Which Depeche Mode album am I? By an ace, it&#8217;s &#8220;Music for the Masses&#8221; over &#8220;Violator&#8221; (via writerpunk)Guardian UK&#8217;s &#8220;Outrage at guns for sterilisation policy&#8221; (via Agonist), Strobe Talbott&#8217;s &#8220;Engaging India: Diplomacy, Democracy and the Bomb&#8221; (via Amit&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: brendalynn</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7029</link>
		<dc:creator>brendalynn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Oct 2004 01:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7029</guid>
		<description>Great discussion. Sean, I think you made an excellent, straightforward point: Very few people on either side actively like Starbucks or WalMart.


But for matters of comparison, WalMart is I think rarely considered a part of the cultural fabric by rural people themselves. It&#039;s more akin to a necessary evil, a tradeoff in exchange for... basically less development, and by that I mean fewer people, fewer stores, and all that comes with.


Whereas Starbucks--or, let&#039;s say specialized, niche stores--are actually one of the benefits to urban living. More choices commercially, more choices culturally. The comparison between rural and urban cultures through these two brands isn&#039;t quite valid (though interesting, for sure) because they are never valued in the same way. A cappuccino drinker would never say, &quot;Thank God for traffic,&quot; when she returns to the city, just as a cowboy would never say &quot;Alright! WalMart!&quot; when he gets back home.


At the same time, the whole issue of comparison creates Other, as Korby points out. I do believe that the division between rural and urban seems to be growing more drastic, but I think the attitudes that perpetuate that perception are a form of primitivism, from both sides.


And speaking of cappuccino and cowboys: The tensions between rural and urban seem to be a favorite for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/forum/story/11123639p-12040026c.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Tim Holt&lt;/a&gt;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion. Sean, I think you made an excellent, straightforward point: Very few people on either side actively like Starbucks or WalMart.</p>
<p>But for matters of comparison, WalMart is I think rarely considered a part of the cultural fabric by rural people themselves. It&#8217;s more akin to a necessary evil, a tradeoff in exchange for&#8230; basically less development, and by that I mean fewer people, fewer stores, and all that comes with.</p>
<p>Whereas Starbucks&#8211;or, let&#8217;s say specialized, niche stores&#8211;are actually one of the benefits to urban living. More choices commercially, more choices culturally. The comparison between rural and urban cultures through these two brands isn&#8217;t quite valid (though interesting, for sure) because they are never valued in the same way. A cappuccino drinker would never say, &#8220;Thank God for traffic,&#8221; when she returns to the city, just as a cowboy would never say &#8220;Alright! WalMart!&#8221; when he gets back home.</p>
<p>At the same time, the whole issue of comparison creates Other, as Korby points out. I do believe that the division between rural and urban seems to be growing more drastic, but I think the attitudes that perpetuate that perception are a form of primitivism, from both sides.</p>
<p>And speaking of cappuccino and cowboys: The tensions between rural and urban seem to be a favorite for <a href="http://www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/forum/story/11123639p-12040026c.html" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.sacbee.com/content/opinion/forum/story/11123639p-12040026c.html?referer=');">Tim Holt</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Korby Parnell</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7028</link>
		<dc:creator>Korby Parnell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 23:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7028</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m gonna ramble about this until I begin to discern why it is that I regretfully agree with your definition of a brand-divided America...


Redmond,Washington: it&#039;s halfway between Seattle and God, a place where you can find sidewalks on both sides of the street, a red house, a blue house, a coffee house boheme, a Safeway, and a Home Depot (but no Wallmart yet). We&#039;ve got safe schools, budget problems, small time drug busts, corporations, underpaid professionals, too many police but not enough police, and more than enough stuff to complain about.


Redmond is a good dream and a bad dream. It is the communal manifestation of that Talking Heads song: &quot;This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife.&quot; Redmond is a dream that sticks in your craw like a stern teacher&#039;s double-edged praise...&quot;you&#039;re a good dreamer.&quot;


Is Redmond the un-American dream?


Americans appear to measure day-to-day success by how long it takes to drive to work at Wallmart and how much it costs to buy a quadruple two percent extra hot vanilla fairshare venti latte at the airport.


The StarbucksWallmart divide is very real. It is also an illusion. As such, it is as easy to identify as it is simple to dismiss.


Red vs. Blue is manufactured. The Wallmart horde versus the Starbucks legion is as painfully, illogically real as was Blue versus Gray. The divide that separates Seattle from Walla Walla or San Francisco from Truckee is not slavery, or brand identity, or even geography; it is imagined community.


The thing that really sticks in my craw is the sense that the WallmartStarbucks divide is less imagined by us than manufactured by &quot;them&quot;.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m gonna ramble about this until I begin to discern why it is that I regretfully agree with your definition of a brand-divided America&#8230;</p>
<p>Redmond,Washington: it&#8217;s halfway between Seattle and God, a place where you can find sidewalks on both sides of the street, a red house, a blue house, a coffee house boheme, a Safeway, and a Home Depot (but no Wallmart yet). We&#8217;ve got safe schools, budget problems, small time drug busts, corporations, underpaid professionals, too many police but not enough police, and more than enough stuff to complain about.</p>
<p>Redmond is a good dream and a bad dream. It is the communal manifestation of that Talking Heads song: &#8220;This is not my beautiful house. This is not my beautiful wife.&#8221; Redmond is a dream that sticks in your craw like a stern teacher&#8217;s double-edged praise&#8230;&#8221;you&#8217;re a good dreamer.&#8221;</p>
<p>Is Redmond the un-American dream?</p>
<p>Americans appear to measure day-to-day success by how long it takes to drive to work at Wallmart and how much it costs to buy a quadruple two percent extra hot vanilla fairshare venti latte at the airport.</p>
<p>The StarbucksWallmart divide is very real. It is also an illusion. As such, it is as easy to identify as it is simple to dismiss.</p>
<p>Red vs. Blue is manufactured. The Wallmart horde versus the Starbucks legion is as painfully, illogically real as was Blue versus Gray. The divide that separates Seattle from Walla Walla or San Francisco from Truckee is not slavery, or brand identity, or even geography; it is imagined community.</p>
<p>The thing that really sticks in my craw is the sense that the WallmartStarbucks divide is less imagined by us than manufactured by &#8220;them&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: sean</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7027</link>
		<dc:creator>sean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:25:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7027</guid>
		<description>Good points.  But remember that people in the small towns complain about Wal Mart and the damage it does even as they shop there, and god knows city people complain about Starbucks.


I think Starbucks does a LOT more social damage in the big cities than it does in my hometown and the suburbs around it, where there really was no cafe culture before Starbucks and Borders (with its in-store cafes) came to town.


</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points.  But remember that people in the small towns complain about Wal Mart and the damage it does even as they shop there, and god knows city people complain about Starbucks.</p>
<p>I think Starbucks does a LOT more social damage in the big cities than it does in my hometown and the suburbs around it, where there really was no cafe culture before Starbucks and Borders (with its in-store cafes) came to town.</p>
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		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7026</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:22:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7026</guid>
		<description>Irina - i&#039;ve actually lived in suburbs, rural areas and driven across this country 13 times talking to people.  I grew up in a version of suburbia.  I&#039;ve also spent weeks/months at a time living with people in places like Indiana, rural PA, and the Berkshires.  (We won&#039;t talk about the amount of time that i spent in rural Nevada ::wink::)  I moved to the city when i went to college. I agree that i&#039;ve never had kids that motivate me to engage in &quot;white flight.&quot;  I&#039;ve also read and taught &quot;To Dwell Among Friends.&quot;


Mike - i&#039;ve not done any formal data collection, no.  This is my blog, not a journal.  It is for me to reflect on personal observations and to throw them out there.  Biases are written all over the place here and this isn&#039;t even my topic of study.


I&#039;m reflecting on what i&#039;ve seen not trying to prove a theory.  I&#039;m making broad sweeps and i&#039;m fully aware of it.


As for familiar strangers and the Safeways... i think that familiar stranger culture used to happen at those zones but most of them support too many people to actually be helpful even in that regard.  This certainly happens at more local regions, but as Walmart Super Centers replace even the Safeways of the country, this gets harder and harder.  When i was staying with my ex&#039;s family, we would drive 45 minutes to get groceries at the Walmart Super Center - the only place for groceries between his place and Walmart were the gas stations.  This is fairly normal.  But even being 45 minutes away, that&#039;s where people went.  [The last grocery store had been removed only a few years earlier.]


When i drove cross country the last time, the only places we could park were at Walmarts.  I actually had a map of all of the Walmarts within 20 miles of 70, 80, 90.  Those are the hubs of most of those regions.  It is where everyone comes, but because there are people coming from so far, it&#039;s not a community gathering place.  It&#039;s an anonymous zone.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irina &#8211; i&#8217;ve actually lived in suburbs, rural areas and driven across this country 13 times talking to people.  I grew up in a version of suburbia.  I&#8217;ve also spent weeks/months at a time living with people in places like Indiana, rural PA, and the Berkshires.  (We won&#8217;t talk about the amount of time that i spent in rural Nevada ::wink::)  I moved to the city when i went to college. I agree that i&#8217;ve never had kids that motivate me to engage in &#8220;white flight.&#8221;  I&#8217;ve also read and taught &#8220;To Dwell Among Friends.&#8221;</p>
<p>Mike &#8211; i&#8217;ve not done any formal data collection, no.  This is my blog, not a journal.  It is for me to reflect on personal observations and to throw them out there.  Biases are written all over the place here and this isn&#8217;t even my topic of study.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m reflecting on what i&#8217;ve seen not trying to prove a theory.  I&#8217;m making broad sweeps and i&#8217;m fully aware of it.</p>
<p>As for familiar strangers and the Safeways&#8230; i think that familiar stranger culture used to happen at those zones but most of them support too many people to actually be helpful even in that regard.  This certainly happens at more local regions, but as Walmart Super Centers replace even the Safeways of the country, this gets harder and harder.  When i was staying with my ex&#8217;s family, we would drive 45 minutes to get groceries at the Walmart Super Center &#8211; the only place for groceries between his place and Walmart were the gas stations.  This is fairly normal.  But even being 45 minutes away, that&#8217;s where people went.  [The last grocery store had been removed only a few years earlier.]</p>
<p>When i drove cross country the last time, the only places we could park were at Walmarts.  I actually had a map of all of the Walmarts within 20 miles of 70, 80, 90.  Those are the hubs of most of those regions.  It is where everyone comes, but because there are people coming from so far, it&#8217;s not a community gathering place.  It&#8217;s an anonymous zone.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7025</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:14:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7025</guid>
		<description>What I find terribly ironic about WalMart is that the low prices that have been the major draw for their customer base are a function of the same forces that drive the jobs out of the areas to which they cater. At what point will we wake up to the fact that we can&#039;t have our cheap electronics and eat them too? ... Or something like that. You get the point. We want decent wages, but we want to buy our clothes and household goods at prices that can only be achieved by sweatshop labor. I don&#039;t think of myself as the &quot;Buy American, dammit!&quot; sort, but I&#039;d like to know that the people who produce my purchases get to go use the bathroom when they need to. Hmmm ... maybe that $3.00 cup of coffee is fairly priced after all.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find terribly ironic about WalMart is that the low prices that have been the major draw for their customer base are a function of the same forces that drive the jobs out of the areas to which they cater. At what point will we wake up to the fact that we can&#8217;t have our cheap electronics and eat them too? &#8230; Or something like that. You get the point. We want decent wages, but we want to buy our clothes and household goods at prices that can only be achieved by sweatshop labor. I don&#8217;t think of myself as the &#8220;Buy American, dammit!&#8221; sort, but I&#8217;d like to know that the people who produce my purchases get to go use the bathroom when they need to. Hmmm &#8230; maybe that $3.00 cup of coffee is fairly priced after all.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html/comment-page-1#comment-7024</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/27/revisiting_walmart_and_starbucks_nation.html#comment-7024</guid>
		<description>I lived for 6 years 20 minutes south of Walmart headquarters in Fayetteville, AR.  I grew up in a town about the same size.  I also lived in Bloomington, IN for 6 years and I&#039;ve now lived in suburban Philadelphia for for almost 4 years.  From a purely political and philosophical point of view, I did not like Walmart, but from a personal economic and time-saving point of view, I loved it.  When I first moved to Fayetteville, I was a faculty spouse, with said spouse making half his salary until he finished the dissertation and with a kid to boot.  At the closest grocery store, which was tiny and old, prices were often 50% higher than at Walmart and there was very little to choose from.  So I often shopped at Walmart.  But not exclusively.  And Fayetteville had a nice downtown area, complete with one of the best coffee shops I&#039;ve ever experienced.


Those of us associated with the University--and I eventually became a graduate student there--felt ourselves to have urban attitudes, but we also liked the small-town friendliness of the area.  Most of us were able to live within walking distance of the University and downtown and frequented the shops and restaurants there.  Many of us also shopped at Walmart.


I love the advantages of the urban area we now live in.  The Walmart is far, far away (I do miss the low prices sometimes).  There&#039;s a Starbucks around the corner.  There are hundreds of good restaurants--though I&#039;ve yet to find a Thai restaurant as good as the one in Fayetteville.  And I love the museums and shopping at unique stores.


What I miss, though, is that sense of community that I had in Fayetteville--and which is probably disappearing now with the building of a Target and a Kohl&#039;s and a strip mall to surround them.  There&#039;s probably even a Starbucks there now.  Here, no one walks anywhere (in the city proper, there&#039;s a little more walking, but of the urban kind).  Because there are so many options, you don&#039;t run into people at the coffee shop or in the Thai restaurant.  That said, our whole neighborhood does turn out at the bus stop every morning.  But then we rush off in our SUVs and minivans with our urban attitudes (me included).
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lived for 6 years 20 minutes south of Walmart headquarters in Fayetteville, AR.  I grew up in a town about the same size.  I also lived in Bloomington, IN for 6 years and I&#8217;ve now lived in suburban Philadelphia for for almost 4 years.  From a purely political and philosophical point of view, I did not like Walmart, but from a personal economic and time-saving point of view, I loved it.  When I first moved to Fayetteville, I was a faculty spouse, with said spouse making half his salary until he finished the dissertation and with a kid to boot.  At the closest grocery store, which was tiny and old, prices were often 50% higher than at Walmart and there was very little to choose from.  So I often shopped at Walmart.  But not exclusively.  And Fayetteville had a nice downtown area, complete with one of the best coffee shops I&#8217;ve ever experienced.</p>
<p>Those of us associated with the University&#8211;and I eventually became a graduate student there&#8211;felt ourselves to have urban attitudes, but we also liked the small-town friendliness of the area.  Most of us were able to live within walking distance of the University and downtown and frequented the shops and restaurants there.  Many of us also shopped at Walmart.</p>
<p>I love the advantages of the urban area we now live in.  The Walmart is far, far away (I do miss the low prices sometimes).  There&#8217;s a Starbucks around the corner.  There are hundreds of good restaurants&#8211;though I&#8217;ve yet to find a Thai restaurant as good as the one in Fayetteville.  And I love the museums and shopping at unique stores.</p>
<p>What I miss, though, is that sense of community that I had in Fayetteville&#8211;and which is probably disappearing now with the building of a Target and a Kohl&#8217;s and a strip mall to surround them.  There&#8217;s probably even a Starbucks there now.  Here, no one walks anywhere (in the city proper, there&#8217;s a little more walking, but of the urban kind).  Because there are so many options, you don&#8217;t run into people at the coffee shop or in the Thai restaurant.  That said, our whole neighborhood does turn out at the bus stop every morning.  But then we rush off in our SUVs and minivans with our urban attitudes (me included).</p>
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