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	<title>Comments on: supporting the Mac is required for social computing</title>
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	<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html</link>
	<description>making connections where none previously existed</description>
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		<title>By: btimlake</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6753</link>
		<dc:creator>btimlake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6753</guid>
		<description>The original post does not suggest that using Apple products is _in itself_ subversive. Rather, it says that the adventurous, the subversive, the early adopters, etc. are *more lkely* to use Apple products. The suggestion that buying Apple products makes one subversive is like saying that wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt makes one a revolutionary.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The original post does not suggest that using Apple products is _in itself_ subversive. Rather, it says that the adventurous, the subversive, the early adopters, etc. are *more lkely* to use Apple products. The suggestion that buying Apple products makes one subversive is like saying that wearing a Che Guevara t-shirt makes one a revolutionary.</p>
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		<title>By: P St-Arnaud</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6752</link>
		<dc:creator>P St-Arnaud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Oct 2004 07:56:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6752</guid>
		<description>I came here by serendipity, and I am floored by the level of discussion of Mac slammers in this thread. After all these years, I should be used to Win fans using personal attacks and demeaning statements when feeling threatened - most seem to lack anything more substantial to support their arguments.


McDonald&#039;s serves more food in a day worldwide than most quality restaurants put together. It does not mean McDonalds makes quality food - go rent Supersize Me for an example. In the same way, the superior market share for Windows does not mean it is a superior OS. I find the average Joe is unable to detect quality even if it bit him in the ass, anyway.


Microsoft is not The Church Of Satan, we&#039;ll leave that to Anton LeVey&#039;s inheritors. But it is a corporate citizen that has been shown from day one (ie QDOS aquisition) to have dubious business practices, which has always been a great way to get rich. Read about railroad barons, or the history of the Kennedy or Bronfman&#039;s fortune for proofs of that. If there is any reason I am adverse to Microsoft, this is it.


Legal does not mean moral. Then again, few people today care about moral. But we all LOVE a winner, and are ready to forgive them how they became a winner.


As an IT consultant, I am called to work on all computer platforms. I chose to specialize on the Mac because I&#039;d rather do stuff with my computer than do stuff on my computer. Mac users will understand the statement. Windows users may not, until they try earnestly to work on a Mac for a couple of months.


While each new Windows generation has narrowed the gap with MacOS, there is still enough of a difference in increased efficiency and intuitiveness of the GUI to support my choice.


Of course there are things like the lack of Games on the Mac, or delays in availability for new title releases. But then, a serious gamer may want to consider a dedicated game box and projection TV with full Dolby Surround for the best experience...


In the end, though, it&#039;s all a right vs left brain issue. Which OS is best for you depends on how YOU work. Creative people like Mac so much simply because the GUI is far more intuitive.


As for rabid Windows fans?


Writer Steve Jack recently compared Windows IT managers to hostages with the Stockholm syndrome. In Dr Carver&#039;s words: &quot;The combination of &#039;Stockholm Syndrome&#039; and &#039;cognitive dissonance&#039; produces a victim who firmly believes the relationship is not only acceptable, but also desperately needed for their survival. The victim feels they would mentally collapse if the relationship ended. In long-term relationships, the victims have invested everything and placed &#039;all their eggs in one basket.&#039; The relationship now decides their level of self-esteem, self-worth, and emotional health.&quot;


And they call Mac users Fanatics!
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came here by serendipity, and I am floored by the level of discussion of Mac slammers in this thread. After all these years, I should be used to Win fans using personal attacks and demeaning statements when feeling threatened &#8211; most seem to lack anything more substantial to support their arguments.</p>
<p>McDonald&#8217;s serves more food in a day worldwide than most quality restaurants put together. It does not mean McDonalds makes quality food &#8211; go rent Supersize Me for an example. In the same way, the superior market share for Windows does not mean it is a superior OS. I find the average Joe is unable to detect quality even if it bit him in the ass, anyway.</p>
<p>Microsoft is not The Church Of Satan, we&#8217;ll leave that to Anton LeVey&#8217;s inheritors. But it is a corporate citizen that has been shown from day one (ie QDOS aquisition) to have dubious business practices, which has always been a great way to get rich. Read about railroad barons, or the history of the Kennedy or Bronfman&#8217;s fortune for proofs of that. If there is any reason I am adverse to Microsoft, this is it.</p>
<p>Legal does not mean moral. Then again, few people today care about moral. But we all LOVE a winner, and are ready to forgive them how they became a winner.</p>
<p>As an IT consultant, I am called to work on all computer platforms. I chose to specialize on the Mac because I&#8217;d rather do stuff with my computer than do stuff on my computer. Mac users will understand the statement. Windows users may not, until they try earnestly to work on a Mac for a couple of months.</p>
<p>While each new Windows generation has narrowed the gap with MacOS, there is still enough of a difference in increased efficiency and intuitiveness of the GUI to support my choice.</p>
<p>Of course there are things like the lack of Games on the Mac, or delays in availability for new title releases. But then, a serious gamer may want to consider a dedicated game box and projection TV with full Dolby Surround for the best experience&#8230;</p>
<p>In the end, though, it&#8217;s all a right vs left brain issue. Which OS is best for you depends on how YOU work. Creative people like Mac so much simply because the GUI is far more intuitive.</p>
<p>As for rabid Windows fans?</p>
<p>Writer Steve Jack recently compared Windows IT managers to hostages with the Stockholm syndrome. In Dr Carver&#8217;s words: &#8220;The combination of &#8216;Stockholm Syndrome&#8217; and &#8216;cognitive dissonance&#8217; produces a victim who firmly believes the relationship is not only acceptable, but also desperately needed for their survival. The victim feels they would mentally collapse if the relationship ended. In long-term relationships, the victims have invested everything and placed &#8216;all their eggs in one basket.&#8217; The relationship now decides their level of self-esteem, self-worth, and emotional health.&#8221;</p>
<p>And they call Mac users Fanatics!</p>
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		<title>By: hexodus</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6761</link>
		<dc:creator>hexodus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2004 22:35:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6761</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Mac Second Class?&lt;/strong&gt;

I came across this while doing my nightly rounds and figured I could add my own hyperinflated two cents: I keep beta-testing software the crashes this, that or the other on my Mac. [Given, i&#039;m really really really good at...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Mac Second Class?</strong></p>
<p>I came across this while doing my nightly rounds and figured I could add my own hyperinflated two cents: I keep beta-testing software the crashes this, that or the other on my Mac. [Given, i&#8217;m really really really good at&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sprocket999</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6751</link>
		<dc:creator>Sprocket999</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6751</guid>
		<description>&quot;In a sociable technology economy, it is no longer acceptable to treat Mac users as second-class citizens.&quot;


I agree, but actions DO speak louder that words. SpaceShip One just claimed the 10 mil prize a week and a bit ago. Surprised to find it was designed and engineered on Macs? There have been several other very advanced products recently either engineered or designed on Macs (can you say Dyson?) -- noteable actions of &#039;First-class&#039; citizens. My feeling is that the small Mac community will ALWAYS be the innovatiors and the large WinTel world will simply be relegated to continue to drone away at their mindless &#039;Tasks&#039;.


Of course though, it would ALSO help Apple&#039;s cause to let the public in general KNOW about these achievements, don&#039;t you think?


As far as &#039;buggy&#039; web sites are concerned, it is just self-absorbed and rude NOT to consider ALL platforms (like many do). Anything less contravines the original &#039;commercial&#039; purpose of the web. Many sites are so over-complicated and over-engineered for the job they are intended to do that it is absurdly laughable. Oh yes, and &quot;Death to Flash!&quot;. There. I&#039;ve said it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In a sociable technology economy, it is no longer acceptable to treat Mac users as second-class citizens.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree, but actions DO speak louder that words. SpaceShip One just claimed the 10 mil prize a week and a bit ago. Surprised to find it was designed and engineered on Macs? There have been several other very advanced products recently either engineered or designed on Macs (can you say Dyson?) &#8212; noteable actions of &#8216;First-class&#8217; citizens. My feeling is that the small Mac community will ALWAYS be the innovatiors and the large WinTel world will simply be relegated to continue to drone away at their mindless &#8216;Tasks&#8217;.</p>
<p>Of course though, it would ALSO help Apple&#8217;s cause to let the public in general KNOW about these achievements, don&#8217;t you think?</p>
<p>As far as &#8216;buggy&#8217; web sites are concerned, it is just self-absorbed and rude NOT to consider ALL platforms (like many do). Anything less contravines the original &#8216;commercial&#8217; purpose of the web. Many sites are so over-complicated and over-engineered for the job they are intended to do that it is absurdly laughable. Oh yes, and &#8220;Death to Flash!&#8221;. There. I&#8217;ve said it.</p>
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		<title>By: zephoria</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6750</link>
		<dc:creator>zephoria</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2004 09:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6750</guid>
		<description>It should be noted that the word tested and this blog should not go hand in hand.  As most people (regardless of system) have learned, this thing crashes constantly, is barely readable and utterly frustrating.  I&#039;m amazed that with all of this, so many people read it.  I built it for me (actually on a PC), not expecting readers and i&#039;m far better at breaking it than fixing it.  I&#039;m waiting for the day when i can find someone who will solve all of my template woes.  When that happens, we can use the terms &quot;tested&quot; and &quot;my blog&quot; in the same sentence.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be noted that the word tested and this blog should not go hand in hand.  As most people (regardless of system) have learned, this thing crashes constantly, is barely readable and utterly frustrating.  I&#8217;m amazed that with all of this, so many people read it.  I built it for me (actually on a PC), not expecting readers and i&#8217;m far better at breaking it than fixing it.  I&#8217;m waiting for the day when i can find someone who will solve all of my template woes.  When that happens, we can use the terms &#8220;tested&#8221; and &#8220;my blog&#8221; in the same sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6749</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6749</guid>
		<description>I always wondered why your site is unreadable for me with any fontsize greater then medium. Now I understand the reason. I use windows/ie, and you didn&#039;t test that. (At least not large fonts).


But your point is a very good one. It is in the interest of any company releasing any innovative software product to support and test apple machines. Never thought of that. Thanks.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always wondered why your site is unreadable for me with any fontsize greater then medium. Now I understand the reason. I use windows/ie, and you didn&#8217;t test that. (At least not large fonts).</p>
<p>But your point is a very good one. It is in the interest of any company releasing any innovative software product to support and test apple machines. Never thought of that. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6748</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6748</guid>
		<description>Who says you can&#039;t make enterprise software work on a Mac?


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;


Apple actually run their customer call center on a single global instance of PeopleSoft CRM (disclaimer: I work for PeopleSoft). When you call Apple, whoever answers that call is getting screen pops coming up in Safari.


&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/a&gt;


There aren&#039;t too many enterprise apps that are more demanding than running a large scale call center.


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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Who says you can&#8217;t make enterprise software work on a Mac?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml?referer=');"></a><a href="http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml?referer=');">http://www.macobserver.com/article/2004/06/30.11.shtml</a></p>
<p>Apple actually run their customer call center on a single global instance of PeopleSoft CRM (disclaimer: I work for PeopleSoft). When you call Apple, whoever answers that call is getting screen pops coming up in Safari.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567&amp;referer=');"></a><a href="http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567" rel="nofollow" onclick="pageTracker._trackPageview('/outgoing/www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567&amp;referer=');">http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=567</a></p>
<p>There aren&#8217;t too many enterprise apps that are more demanding than running a large scale call center.</p>
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		<title>By: Julian Bond</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6747</link>
		<dc:creator>Julian Bond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Oct 2004 00:08:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6747</guid>
		<description>If you write for Firefox (Firefox, right, not Safari or Opera) and support IE, you&#039;re website should work with everyone else. There&#039;s really no excuse any more for producing browser specific websites.


Skype is a perfect example of an initially MS-Win only social tool. And it&#039;s been instructive to find how many people I&#039;ve wanted to talk to have been using Mac or Linux with AIM or Yahoo or whatever and couldn&#039;t even try Skype. Now that Mac and Linux versions are available they still don&#039;t want to try it because it&#039;s &quot;non-standard&quot;. So it&#039;s a good thing that it grew so fast despite excluding a large proportion of early adopters initially.


From a dev standpoint. If you have to support Mac and Linux initially, this forces you into using open software and open standards. This is a *good* thing.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you write for Firefox (Firefox, right, not Safari or Opera) and support IE, you&#8217;re website should work with everyone else. There&#8217;s really no excuse any more for producing browser specific websites.</p>
<p>Skype is a perfect example of an initially MS-Win only social tool. And it&#8217;s been instructive to find how many people I&#8217;ve wanted to talk to have been using Mac or Linux with AIM or Yahoo or whatever and couldn&#8217;t even try Skype. Now that Mac and Linux versions are available they still don&#8217;t want to try it because it&#8217;s &#8220;non-standard&#8221;. So it&#8217;s a good thing that it grew so fast despite excluding a large proportion of early adopters initially.</p>
<p>From a dev standpoint. If you have to support Mac and Linux initially, this forces you into using open software and open standards. This is a *good* thing.</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6746</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:58:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6746</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s a BoBo?


steve (Happy Macist. Well, at home anyway...)
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s a BoBo?</p>
<p>steve (Happy Macist. Well, at home anyway&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: T. Weber</title>
		<link>http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html/comment-page-1#comment-6745</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Weber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Oct 2004 07:15:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ubuntu.my/wp30/archives/2004/10/08/supporting_the_mac_is_required_for_social_computing.html#comment-6745</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s try to apply logic. Companies wanting to spread (then sell) innovative products have to convince people to give it a try. Early Adopters are  very easy to convince (hence the name). So companies could cater to eraly adopters. Many early adopters use MacOS X (because they are early adopters). So shutting the Mac out is stupid.


No that&#039;s settled I have some left over words: zealot, subversive, monopoly, ignoramus, radical, geek. Anybody need them for some slashdot Linux-vs-Windows thread?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s try to apply logic. Companies wanting to spread (then sell) innovative products have to convince people to give it a try. Early Adopters are  very easy to convince (hence the name). So companies could cater to eraly adopters. Many early adopters use MacOS X (because they are early adopters). So shutting the Mac out is stupid.</p>
<p>No that&#8217;s settled I have some left over words: zealot, subversive, monopoly, ignoramus, radical, geek. Anybody need them for some slashdot Linux-vs-Windows thread?</p>
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